[humanser] INTERVIEWING

Wed Oct 23 23:32:08 UTC 2013

Doug,

Thanks for the information, which will be kept in my "work" folder as good 
for future situations.

Thanks,

Sandy

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Doug Lee" <dgl at dlee.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 10:11 AM
To: "Human Services Mailing List" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [humanser] INTERVIEWING

> I present the following as more of an archivable (and rather long)
> message more than as something to process entirely right away. :-)
>
> A technical response to one line in JD's message, just to avoid any
> confusion...
>
> JD said, "Those folks who write scripts for Window-Eyes or JAWS
> can make any system work." My response as a scripter, mostly of JAWS
> but also a couple times of Window-Eyes and even NVDA, follows. I will
> present here five situations that I consider risky for making that
> claim, then some questions that might be wise to ask or otherwise
> check out, though probably after, not before or during, an interview.
> Let me be very clear on that: It is, even legally, more the
> prospective employer's job to assure accessibility to their software
> in many cases, not yours. So don't break your chances with too much
> worry about what follows before you have a foot in the door. All that
> said, here goes:
>
>
> Even as scripters, we are dependent on what information is made
> available to us by the application. There are a few types of
> applications that are not practical to script without modifications to
> the application itself. Off the top of my head, the following
> situations immediately make me start asking questions before I
> announce that I can fix things. For this and other reasons, my
> approach (and formally that of my company, SSB BART Group's approach)
> is often to try first to work with application developers to improve the
> native accessibility of the app(s) before scripting. That is of course
> not always possible. In any case, the situation list:
>
> 1. A Java environment requiring the Java Access Bridge. I make sure
> the JAB, as we sometimes call it, provides enough information for me
> to work with. Of particular interest here are tables and HTML edit
> boxes. Tables can be tricky but sometimes can be scripted quite well.
> HTML edit controls have been known to cause some JAWS versions to
> crash frequently. Java apps are scriptable in most cases I've seen
> though.
>
> 2. Similarly, Flash and Silverlight situations. Here I must first
> determine whether *any* information is accessible. Developers must put
> Flash content in a window and not use transparent or opaque display
> modes. Silverlight developers must avoid using windowless mode. If
> these tests fail, the application must change before scripting is
> possible. Even after this is addressed, some accessibility must be
> included by the application developers, such as control types and
> labels (names) and a usable tab order, or sequence of controls you
> visit while pressing the Tab key.
>
> 3. So-called thin-client setups, such as with Citrix, where the actual
> application runs on a central server and all you have on your PC is
> screen images and keyboard input. This situation requires JAWS or
> Window-Eyes to run both on the server and on your PC, or it is not
> possible to work with. Companies vary on how willing they are to load
> a screen reader on a central server. In cases like this, I ask if
> there is a thick client, or local client, that provides the same
> functionality even if not via identical-looking screens.
>
> 4. QT-based applications. QT is a framework favored by some developers
> for its support of a single code base across several operating system
> platforms. A developer using QT can write one batch of code and run it
> on Windows, MacOS, and Linux without expending massive efforts to
> adjust it for each of those platforms. Unfortunately, the
> accessibility support for QT varies widely among versions and, in my
> experience, is not nearly what JAWS and Window-Eyes natively (without
> scripting) expect from an application. These situations can often be
> scripted, but edit controls may not provide nearly the feedback you'd
> expect even with scripting, and I find application crashes sadly
> common when a Windows screen reader is being used.
>
> 5. Any application for which the JAWS cursor (or Window-Eyes
> equivalent review facility) sees no text or just the window title.
> This applies to many if not all QT apps but can also apply elsewhere.
> Such an application must provide some fform of accessibility to be
> reasonably scriptable, so I test for such support as soon as possible
> when I see something like this. If no such support is available, the
> best I could do would be to provide solutions such as Hot Spot Clicker
> configurations that name screen regions and allow you to click on them
> to work with the application. This does not let you read results
> though, and that has been (for me, at least so far) reason enough to
> consider HSC-type solutions insufficient to warrant implementation
> effort at job sites. HSC is powerful enough, though, that it surely
> will be of use in some cases like this.
>
> Because of the above, the following questions, to be asked or tested
> for at some point but probably not before or during the interview,
> could be wise:
>
> 1. Do any of the applications use a Java VM, Flash, or Silverlight?
>
> 2. Are any of the applications thin clients?
>
> 3. Does the JAWS cursor see text besides window titles, or are there
> apps where this is not the case?
>
> 4. If problems appear in response to those questions, is there a
> possibility of opening a line of communication between
> JAWS/Window-Eyes scripters and application developers? (This can
> require support tickets to be set up, conference calls to be planned,
> etc.)
>
> Finally, there is one frequent occurrence I've seen that is not quite
> specifically addressed above: E-Learning situations where you are
> expected to go through a sequence of online training screens that are
> simulations of, rather than actual instances of, the applications
> being taught. Simulations generally do not work with screen readers
> because they do not provide the appropriate information for the screen
> reader to speak. For example, even if a web-based applications's
> screens are very easy to use with JAWS, a simulation of them using
> clickable screen-sized graphic images is not usable that way. If you
> at some point hear that there is online training expected of you, find
> out if it can be checked for this sort of thing, or if alternatives
> such as online Word or PDF documents or informational web sites
> exist.. Of course, for training even more than for actual application
> work, a live reader could be enough to handle absolutely any such
> problem.
>
>
> In conclusion, I urge anyone who actually read this far without either
> falling asleep or glazing over... to remember not to scare or confuse
> prospective employers with a lot of technical concerns right off the
> bat. Your first priority as an interviewee is to present yourself as a
> solution, not a problem. I give you all the above information so you
> can know a bit more of what to look out for before you make a
> commitment to an employer about what you can do without help. That
> commitment, of course, would come more at the job offer stage, which
> is a ways past the interview most of the time.
>
> Best of luck to all, in current and future jobs. For my part, I
> consider a lot of my job the art of sifting through all the above
> information and making your jobs possible with minimal employer-side
> effort. But you all probably knew that already. :-)
>
> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 09:08:14AM -0400, JD Townsend wrote:
>
> Hello Sandy:
>
> In an interview I never go into details of accomadations that I may or
> may not require.  I may inform that that I have software that makes
> their PCs available to me in braille or speech, but I never go into
> details about blind services assistance or other concerns.  The
> accomadations are mine to make and to take responsibility for and, if
> I give one message about blindness, it is that I will require little
> or nothing from them, a message of my independence.
>
> I
>
>
> As for electronic records, mine are available to me one way or
> another. Those folks who write scripts for Window-Eyes or JAWS can
> make any system work.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> JD
> From: Sandy
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:29 AM
> To: 'Human Services Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [humanser] INTERVIEWING
>
> JD,
>
> This message from you is being kept in a folder I call "work."  It is
> certainly true that our being therapists is dependent on more important
> things than how little, or how much we see.  You mention how some people
> prefer to talk with a clinician who can't see them, and I heard just that
> comment from a fairly new supervisor at the mental health agency I am
> temporarily not working at while we clear up how accommodations will be
> employed due to the new electronic health records.  If I work at another
> agency, most likely the electronic records will be problematic.  At an
> interview, do I briefly speak of how the paperwork gets done despite the
> records, handwritten files, etc.? Do I simply state that I am able to do 
> the
> paperwork, and get in to accommodations when I am hired?
>
>
> Sandy Burgess, LCSW
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "JD Townsend" <43210 at Bellsouth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 10:29 PM
> To: "'Human Services Mailing List'" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [humanser] INTERVIEWING
>
>>
>>
>>how would you handle it if you're trying to talk about your skills
>>as a social worker and the employer keeps referring back to the
>>blindness?
>>Alyssa,
>>
>>I might try to be casual, but ask:
>>
>>
>>???You seem fascinated by blindness.  I can assure you that I can
>>and will be timely with the paperwork, excellent with my clients and
>>an involved team member, my disability has nothing to do with that,
>>but I???d be happy
>>
>>to tell you how I shop, dress and cross-country ski if that???ll get
>>me the job?
>>
>>
>>???If your blindness questions  center around wondering if I can
>>keep up, if you wonder how I???ll accomplish my daily tasks, trust
>>me, I???ll show you my productivity, my writing talent, and my
>>clinical successes.???
>>
>>???It???s funny, but a blind psychotherapist I know asks how the
>>light dependent do all of that with ink on paper.  He???s the most
>>productive worker at his job and has a great reputation as a
>>clinician.???
>>
>>
>>???You have lots of questions for me, now let me ask you about the
>>agency and how you see me in this position.???
>>
>>???I have found that many clients feel more comfortable with a
>>therapist who is blind and they address their core issues more
>>readily, feeling less judged.???
>>
>>???I have found that many of the clients you have described feel
>>disabled by their mental illnesses and feel more comfortable
>>discussing their issues with a therapist who is also disabled.???
>>
>>???You may be concerned that you would not be able to do this job if
>>you lost your sight.  Let me assure you, should that happen, with
>>good rehabilitation and a positive attitude you would.  I have had
>>that rehabilitation and I have that attitude now.???
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>
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>
> JD Townsend LCSW
> Helping the light dependent to see.
> Daytona Beach, Earth, Sol System
>
>
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>
> -- 
> Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
> SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com 
> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
> Don't be afraid your life will end; be afraid that itwill never begin.
> -- Grace Hansen
>
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