[humanser] INTERVIEWING

JD Townsend 43210 at Bellsouth.net
Sat Oct 26 02:24:46 UTC 2013 

Hello Doug & thank you for the good information.


In most of the situations that we in the human services face, the agency 
electronic records are in a standard Windows environment, however some of 
the flash and other environments are, of course, possible.  I have to read 
records using the hospital's database with the results read by OpenBook in 
order to read the entire document.  A bit clumbsy, but doable.


The issue of on-line training within my agency and required trainings from 
our State system have not been easily usable and I do use readers for these.

Thank you again for your clear explanation.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Doug Lee
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 10:11 AM
To: Human Services Mailing List
Subject: Re: [humanser] INTERVIEWING

I present the following as more of an archivable (and rather long)
message more than as something to process entirely right away. :-)

A technical response to one line in JD's message, just to avoid any
confusion...

JD said, "Those folks who write scripts for Window-Eyes or JAWS
can make any system work." My response as a scripter, mostly of JAWS
but also a couple times of Window-Eyes and even NVDA, follows. I will
present here five situations that I consider risky for making that
claim, then some questions that might be wise to ask or otherwise
check out, though probably after, not before or during, an interview.
Let me be very clear on that: It is, even legally, more the
prospective employer's job to assure accessibility to their software
in many cases, not yours. So don't break your chances with too much
worry about what follows before you have a foot in the door. All that
said, here goes:


Even as scripters, we are dependent on what information is made
available to us by the application. There are a few types of
applications that are not practical to script without modifications to
the application itself. Off the top of my head, the following
situations immediately make me start asking questions before I
announce that I can fix things. For this and other reasons, my
approach (and formally that of my company, SSB BART Group's approach)
is often to try first to work with application developers to improve the
native accessibility of the app(s) before scripting. That is of course
not always possible. In any case, the situation list:

1. A Java environment requiring the Java Access Bridge. I make sure
the JAB, as we sometimes call it, provides enough information for me
to work with. Of particular interest here are tables and HTML edit
boxes. Tables can be tricky but sometimes can be scripted quite well.
HTML edit controls have been known to cause some JAWS versions to
crash frequently. Java apps are scriptable in most cases I've seen
though.

2. Similarly, Flash and Silverlight situations. Here I must first
determine whether *any* information is accessible. Developers must put
Flash content in a window and not use transparent or opaque display
modes. Silverlight developers must avoid using windowless mode. If
these tests fail, the application must change before scripting is
possible. Even after this is addressed, some accessibility must be
included by the application developers, such as control types and
labels (names) and a usable tab order, or sequence of controls you
visit while pressing the Tab key.

3. So-called thin-client setups, such as with Citrix, where the actual
application runs on a central server and all you have on your PC is
screen images and keyboard input. This situation requires JAWS or
Window-Eyes to run both on the server and on your PC, or it is not
possible to work with. Companies vary on how willing they are to load
a screen reader on a central server. In cases like this, I ask if
there is a thick client, or local client, that provides the same
functionality even if not via identical-looking screens.

4. QT-based applications. QT is a framework favored by some developers
for its support of a single code base across several operating system
platforms. A developer using QT can write one batch of code and run it
on Windows, MacOS, and Linux without expending massive efforts to
adjust it for each of those platforms. Unfortunately, the
accessibility support for QT varies widely among versions and, in my
experience, is not nearly what JAWS and Window-Eyes natively (without
scripting) expect from an application. These situations can often be
scripted, but edit controls may not provide nearly the feedback you'd
expect even with scripting, and I find application crashes sadly
common when a Windows screen reader is being used.

5. Any application for which the JAWS cursor (or Window-Eyes
equivalent review facility) sees no text or just the window title.
This applies to many if not all QT apps but can also apply elsewhere.
Such an application must provide some fform of accessibility to be
reasonably scriptable, so I test for such support as soon as possible
when I see something like this. If no such support is available, the
best I could do would be to provide solutions such as Hot Spot Clicker
configurations that name screen regions and allow you to click on them
to work with the application. This does not let you read results
though, and that has been (for me, at least so far) reason enough to
consider HSC-type solutions insufficient to warrant implementation
effort at job sites. HSC is powerful enough, though, that it surely
will be of use in some cases like this.

Because of the above, the following questions, to be asked or tested
for at some point but probably not before or during the interview,
could be wise:

1. Do any of the applications use a Java VM, Flash, or Silverlight?

2. Are any of the applications thin clients?

3. Does the JAWS cursor see text besides window titles, or are there
apps where this is not the case?

4. If problems appear in response to those questions, is there a
possibility of opening a line of communication between
JAWS/Window-Eyes scripters and application developers? (This can
require support tickets to be set up, conference calls to be planned,
etc.)

Finally, there is one frequent occurrence I've seen that is not quite
specifically addressed above: E-Learning situations where you are
expected to go through a sequence of online training screens that are
simulations of, rather than actual instances of, the applications
being taught. Simulations generally do not work with screen readers
because they do not provide the appropriate information for the screen
reader to speak. For example, even if a web-based applications's
screens are very easy to use with JAWS, a simulation of them using
clickable screen-sized graphic images is not usable that way. If you
at some point hear that there is online training expected of you, find
out if it can be checked for this sort of thing, or if alternatives
such as online Word or PDF documents or informational web sites
exist.. Of course, for training even more than for actual application
work, a live reader could be enough to handle absolutely any such
problem.


In conclusion, I urge anyone who actually read this far without either
falling asleep or glazing over... to remember not to scare or confuse
prospective employers with a lot of technical concerns right off the
bat. Your first priority as an interviewee is to present yourself as a
solution, not a problem. I give you all the above information so you
can know a bit more of what to look out for before you make a
commitment to an employer about what you can do without help. That
commitment, of course, would come more at the job offer stage, which
is a ways past the interview most of the time.

Best of luck to all, in current and future jobs. For my part, I
consider a lot of my job the art of sifting through all the above
information and making your jobs possible with minimal employer-side
effort. But you all probably knew that already. :-)

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 09:08:14AM -0400, JD Townsend wrote:

Hello Sandy:

In an interview I never go into details of accomadations that I may or
may not require.  I may inform that that I have software that makes
their PCs available to me in braille or speech, but I never go into
details about blind services assistance or other concerns.  The
accomadations are mine to make and to take responsibility for and, if
I give one message about blindness, it is that I will require little
or nothing from them, a message of my independence.

I


As for electronic records, mine are available to me one way or
another. Those folks who write scripts for Window-Eyes or JAWS can
make any system work.


-----Original Message-----


JD
From: Sandy
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:29 AM
To: 'Human Services Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [humanser] INTERVIEWING

JD,

This message from you is being kept in a folder I call "work."  It is
certainly true that our being therapists is dependent on more important
things than how little, or how much we see.  You mention how some people
prefer to talk with a clinician who can't see them, and I heard just that
comment from a fairly new supervisor at the mental health agency I am
temporarily not working at while we clear up how accommodations will be
employed due to the new electronic health records.  If I work at another
agency, most likely the electronic records will be problematic.  At an
interview, do I briefly speak of how the paperwork gets done despite the
records, handwritten files, etc.? Do I simply state that I am able to do the
paperwork, and get in to accommodations when I am hired?


Sandy Burgess, LCSW

--------------------------------------------------
From: "JD Townsend" <43210 at Bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 10:29 PM
To: "'Human Services Mailing List'" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [humanser] INTERVIEWING

>
>
>how would you handle it if you're trying to talk about your skills
>as a social worker and the employer keeps referring back to the
>blindness?
>Alyssa,
>
>I might try to be casual, but ask:
>
>
>???You seem fascinated by blindness.  I can assure you that I can
>and will be timely with the paperwork, excellent with my clients and
>an involved team member, my disability has nothing to do with that,
>but I???d be happy
>
>to tell you how I shop, dress and cross-country ski if that???ll get
>me the job?
>
>
>???If your blindness questions  center around wondering if I can
>keep up, if you wonder how I???ll accomplish my daily tasks, trust
>me, I???ll show you my productivity, my writing talent, and my
>clinical successes.???
>
>???It???s funny, but a blind psychotherapist I know asks how the
>light dependent do all of that with ink on paper.  He???s the most
>productive worker at his job and has a great reputation as a
>clinician.???
>
>
>???You have lots of questions for me, now let me ask you about the
>agency and how you see me in this position.???
>
>???I have found that many clients feel more comfortable with a
>therapist who is blind and they address their core issues more
>readily, feeling less judged.???
>
>???I have found that many of the clients you have described feel
>disabled by their mental illnesses and feel more comfortable
>discussing their issues with a therapist who is also disabled.???
>
>???You may be concerned that you would not be able to do this job if
>you lost your sight.  Let me assure you, should that happen, with
>good rehabilitation and a positive attitude you would.  I have had
>that rehabilitation and I have that attitude now.???
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for humanser:
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>

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JD Townsend LCSW
Helping the light dependent to see.
Daytona Beach, Earth, Sol System


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-- 
Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com 
http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
Don't be afraid your life will end; be afraid that itwill never begin.
-- Grace Hansen

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JD Townsend LCSW
Helping the light dependent to see.
Daytona Beach, Earth, Sol System

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