[MusicTlk] Question to low-vision piano players

Tue Jan 30 14:35:33 UTC 2018

Mike, here is a link to the nls music course catalog, looks like some
choices for basic piano. Make sure you get all the basics memorized, and
you will never have to look at the keybd.
https://www.loc.gov/nls/braille-audio-reading-materials/music-materials/catalogs-circulars-available-music-section/instructional-music-recordings-catalog/
good luck
ned

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 6:42 PM, BillList1 via MusicTlk <musictlk at nfbnet.org
> wrote:

> My buddy, Grant Horrocks, has both his blind and sighted students learn
> what
> he calls piano geography.  They get seated in front of the piano keyboard
> and oriented spatially to it.  Then, he has them put their hands in their
> laps.  The sighted students must wear a blindfold.
>
> Then, he says something like: "C major triad."  The student must raise
> their
> hands and play that triad with both hands in root position.  I have seen a
> demonstration of it at a conference and his blind student nailed it almost
> every time.
>
> As Linda said, getting oriented and comfortable with the instrument is
> really key.  Using the position of the black keys as a reference also makes
> sense.  Of course, I am a self-taught pianist.  My main instrument is
> trumpet.  I am totally blind and I do feel my way around the keyboard.
>
> If you use a head-mounted telescope, you might like to try an evaluation
> version of our Lime Lighter software.  The music tracks to your eye across
> the screen from right to left so you do not need to shift your gaze very
> far
> from left to right.  Here is a link to a 63-second video summary.  For more
> information, please write me off-list at my info at DancingDots.com address.
>
> One-minute Summary of Features of Lime Lighter Music-reading Solution for
> Low Vision Performers
> http://www.dancingdots.com/huge/DancingDotsLimeLighterOneMinuteVideo.mp4
> or on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDDrLgZMdOU
>
> Bill McCann
> President
> Dancing Dots
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MusicTlk [mailto:musictlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
> Jolls
> via MusicTlk
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 9:29 AM
> To: Music Talk Mailing List for Blind Musicians
> Cc: Mike Jolls
> Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Question to low-vision piano players
>
> Ned
>
> Thank you for replying.  Here are a couple of thoughts in reply.
>
> First, I'll have to check out the music course you mention.  You never know
> what "gems" your going to find.
>
> Second, about piano teachers.  My experience so far with the piano is that
> most teachers don't have a clue about how to advise a low vision player.  I
> wear a head-mounted telescope and can only read about a measure at a time
> through that device.  I've told my teacher that, but she really doesn't
> have
> much to say in the way of tips.  I've been telling HER some of the things
> I've been trying .. such as feeling my way along the keyboard.  It's been
> pretty much up to me to figure out how to get around problems.  Interesting
> to say the least.
>
> Third, your comment about memorization is probably good advice.  My mother,
> who plays piano, tells me that once I learn the music, I should memorize
> it.
> That removes the problem of not being able to sight read easily and you can
> focus more on navigating the keyboard.  I've already memorized a couple of
> relatively easy Bach pieces (they're pieces a 10-12 year old would learn,
> so
> they're not real difficult) and I play them each day to keep them fresh.
> What I'm working on now is a Chopin piece.  It is NOT easy. There are a LOT
> of two octave jumps and doing it by feel is a challenge.  I've only been
> working on the first two lines, and it's a BEAR to memorize.  Perhaps my
> ability to memorize is affected by my age .. I'm 61.  Still, I'm not giving
> up.  I love this piece.  I told myself when I started taking piano I was
> going to go as far as I can.  At this point, I know enough theory to be
> able
> to look at this piece and understand what it's asking of me.  I'm not going
> to quit, unless after much work I see it just isn't going to happen.
>
> Fourth, you say you are learning Braille.  Is that literary Braille?  Yes,
> it takes time and work, but if literary Braille is what you're learning,
> hang in there.  When you can't see to read print and you've been sighted,
> well low vison, your whole life (I was there a few years ago with very
> severe cataracts) it's a real downer.  I determined in my mind that I was
> going to try to read Braille because I didn't like not being able to read.
> It took me about 9 months to learn Braille.  When I finished my course, it
> took me 25 minutes to read a single page of Braille.  I had to keep reading
> and working at it, but I got better.  Now I only take 4 minutes to read a
> page.  The thing I got out of Braille was liberation.  I was no longer a
> captive to not being able to read.  My advice to you is to keep it up.  You
> will get there and you'll be able to read.  And when that day comes, you'll
> be glad you put the time in.  The one downside I found to Braille is that
> there isn't a lot of selection of material you can get in the way of
> pleasure reading . at least through the NLS.  Most of their content is in
> audio.  When I learned and saw how I could read despite my poor vision, I
> wanted to get my hands on as much Braille as I could.  The NLS was a real
> disappointment.  Now, several years after getting my cataracts taken care
> of
> and my bad vision restored, I still read Braille because it's a good skill
> to have.  Anyway, my advice to you is to see it to the end and see what it
> means for you.  I was glad I did.  You may be too.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
> From: Ned O'Brien via MusicTlk<mailto:musictlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 8:04 AM
> To: Music Talk Mailing List for Blind Musicians<mailto:musictlk at nfbnet.org
> >
> Cc: Ned O'Brien<mailto:ned968 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Question to low-vision piano players
>
> Mike, here's some advice from experience....I have taken lessons and played
> the organ for 15 yrs, with slowly failing vision, always had a tough time
> seeing the music to play but did it...I have lost enough vision that I am
> unable to read music at all.That's when I realized that I really couldn't
> play the organ, none of my teachers had ever taught me to memorize music. I
> have started over learning to play, I am using an nlsbard available audio
> book series..modern keybd harmony by bill irwin, it is a course done
> exclusively for the blind.  so before you lose all vision, start learning
> to
> memorize....I am currently learning braille which is quite difficult for an
> old guy.
> best of luck to you
> ned
>
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Linda Mentink via MusicTlk <
> musictlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > It is bad practice to look at the keys while playing. Yes, you are on
> > to it. If you place your fingers where you can feel the black keys,
> > that will help a lot, and you'll even be able to do octave jumps. It's
> > a matter of muscle memory and lots of practice. Just as you type
> > without looking at the keys, so you play the piano without looking at the
> keys!
> >
> > Blessings,
> >
> > Linda
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ella Yu via MusicTlk <musictlk at nfbnet.org
> > To: Music Talk Mailing List for Blind Musicians <musictlk at nfbnet.org
> > Date sent: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 15:58:17 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Question to low-vision piano players
> >
> > I think it works just fine.  I don't know if I exactly use this
> > method, since I'm often not conscious of it, but I think I do.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Jolls via MusicTlk <musictlk at nfbnet.org
> > To: "musictlk at nfbnet.org" <musictlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 22 Jan
> > 2018 22:34:44 +0000
> > Subject: [MusicTlk] Question to low-vision piano players
> >
> > Hello everyone, and particularly to low-vision piano players ..
> > I have a question about sight reading and keeping track of where you
> > are on the piano.
> > I? a low vision piano student.  Luckily I have enough vision to use a
> > telescope and can read standard printed music (although I can only
> > read a measure at a time unfortunately, but it? better than nothing).
> > My teacher has told me to sight read and not look at the keyboard.
> > Even if I do try to look at my hands from time to time, it? difficult
> > (depending on how far down the keyboard I have to look) because my low
> > vision makes it difficult to see exactly where I am depending on the
> > distance down the keyboard where I? trying to look).  Therefore, I?e
> > come to the conclusion that if possible, sight has to be eliminated in
> > piano playing, as far as looking at my hands.  In other words, I have
> > to navigate by feel like a totally blind person.  To this point, I?e
> > been struggling with how to do this.  I?e recently come up with a
> > potential solution, but I wanted to run it by you all to see if I? on
> > the right track.
> >
> > My idea is to play with my fingers engaging the black keys, and then
> > using the black keys around my fingers as a reference to know where I
> > am and how far I have to go to the next key.  As an example, Let? say
> > I? playing a G with my right hand.  I COULD just play a G with my
> > fingers on the white portion of the key (not engaged in, or in between
> > the black heys) .  But then, let?
> > say I had to go to a D above it.  If I was just on the white portion
> > of the key, I wouldn? know how far to go to the D above
> > it.   However, if I played the G with my finger in between the
> > two black keys, I could then use the black keys to feel my way to the
> > D above it, since I? be able to feel the gap between Bb and C#, and I?
> > know the D is immediately after C# black key.
> >
> > That? a long way of saying, use the black keys as tactile navigation
> > markers.
> >
> > I was playing some Bach and trying to sight-read the piece, and it
> > seemed that when the distances of the notes were fairly close
> > together, being engaged with the black keys helped a lot in mentally
> > keeping track of where I was, and realizing where the next key was
> > located.  This was because I could use the black keys as tactile
> > markers to help me know where the next key was located by feel,
> > assuming I understand how the keyboard is laid out.  I had to feel to
> > locate the next key, but that seemed to work and it seemed I made
> > fewer errors as I sight-read the music without looking at my hands.
> >
> > Now, I realize I can? use this technique for everything.  Two octave
> > jumps (for example) are going to have to be another thing altogether.
> > I might just have to look, if I can.  Or I might have to learn the
> > piece and do that from muscle memory.  But at least for short distance
> > passages, it seems this is promising.
> > If this is something you?e all learned to do and actively use this
> > technique, then I?e at least solved one part of the navigation puzzle,
> > and hopefully I can develop it.
> >
> > So, has anybody used this technique of keeping their fingers engaged
> > in the black keys to give themselves a tactile cue to help find their
> > way around the keyboard?  Am I on to something?
> > Is this a bad method?  Would it slow you down, especially when you had
> > to play fast passages?  I don? want to continue this if it? going to
> > be a bad habit.
> >
> > Please let me know.  I have to say I was pretty excited when I found I
> > was more successful with this Bach piece with this method when I was
> > trying to stay focused on the music.
> >
> > Thanks for the information.
> >
> > Mike Jolls
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from
> > Mail<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8cf7
> > a18108b743c30c4a08d564c5ad55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
> > 0%7C636525722528683419&sdata=P%2Bk7h50rlhCihO5wKmCNeFxKgNeSER07nMkoiMP
> > N6qY%3D&reserved=0
> > for Windows 10
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > MusicTlk mailing list
> > MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne
> > t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8cf
> > 7a18108b743c30c4a08d564c5ad55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
> > C0%7C636525722528683419&sdata=UuG4cMFw87y2O298b1RXCvrd6Co9GuU4NECeB4%2
> > F7V8Y%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> > your account info for MusicTlk:
> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne
> > t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org%2Fellaxyu%2540g&data=0
> > 2%7C01%7C%7C8cf7a18108b743c30c4a08d564c5ad55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa
> > aaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525722528683419&sdata=t2c3vzqslprhF0gvL6y1RohV6
> > mdqwWy%2BETN3p3ov15Q%3D&reserved=0
> > mail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > MusicTlk mailing list
> > MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne
> > t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8cf
> > 7a18108b743c30c4a08d564c5ad55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
> > C0%7C636525722528683419&sdata=UuG4cMFw87y2O298b1RXCvrd6Co9GuU4NECeB4%2
> > F7V8Y%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> > your account info for
> > MusicTlk:
> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne
> > t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org%2Fned968%2540gmail.com
> > &data=02%7C01%7C%7C8cf7a18108b743c30c4a08d564c5ad55%7C84df9e7fe9f640af
> > b435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525722528683419&sdata=F6kW3TJgn3FyrRzfz6
> > 4M4B2jfgdHDaDdQhtpmh%2F7Xx0%3D&reserved=0
> >
> _______________________________________________
> MusicTlk mailing list
> MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%
> 2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org&data=02%
> 7C01%7C%7C8cf7a18108b743c
> 30c4a08d564c5ad55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6365257225286
> 83419&sdata=UuG4cMFw87y2O298b1RXCvrd6Co9GuU4NECeB4%2F7V8Y%3D&reserved=0
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> MusicTlk:
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%
> 2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org%2Fmrspock56%2540hotmail.com&
> data=0
> 2%7C01%7C%7C8cf7a18108b743c30c4a08d564c5ad55%
> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> aaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525722528683419&sdata=0K6Y6VU7vXy4IRQGb8TA%
> 2BdTJpGU1e55ZVYd
> W7f4x2v0%3D&reserved=0
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicTlk mailing list
> MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> MusicTlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/musictlk_nfbnet.org/
> billlist1%40verizon.ne
> t
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicTlk mailing list
> MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> MusicTlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/musictlk_nfbnet.org/ned968%40gmail.com
>