[MusicTlk] I'd like to have a civil, nonjudgemental discussion about audio production techniques, if we can manage to do so.

Wed Nov 16 22:50:58 UTC 2022

Hi Chris:

You have challenged us to have a "civil, nonjudgmental discussion" about
audio production, and I hope that you agree with my assessment that those
who have responded thus far have risen to that challenge very well. As a
leader in the NFB Performing Arts Division, which sponsors this list, I have
been giving a lot of thought recently to how we can facilitate a place where
blind sound engineers can share tips, tricks and experiences with each
other. Like you, however, I know from my own experience in this field that
opinions on how various things should be done differ widely, and a
discussion that starts out as a healthy debate can turn unhealthy if one
isn't careful. So, I for one am glad to see the positive spirit in which
this discussion is taking place, and I hope it can be a harbinger of things
to come.

Now for a few comments of my own in answer to your questions. I should first
qualify my statements by saying that my production experience is in
podcasting and radio, while my musical experience is in performance. So I
recognize that my kind of production and yours are different in many ways.
However, I think the general principles you are asking about apply to both.
Specifically, I think the concept that "less is more" is as applicable to
editing a podcast or producing a radio show as it is to mixing a track.
Until very recently, I used Goldwave for everything. I'm now in the process
of learning Reaper through a course recommended to me by a fellow blind
broadcaster. As I'm sure many on this list know, Reaper has many more
capabilities than Goldwave, and in many cases is more precise in its
editing. However, I'm sure I won't use all the features I learn in every
project, and I may never use some of them at all. Even as I go through this
process, there will be internal debates between my radio colleagues, with
some telling me I'm wasting my time with Reaper and should switch to a Mac
if I ever hope to do any serious production, while others counter that
getting a board and setting up a studio will make life easier on everyone
involved. I think these debates are worth having because I learn something
from them and they build collaborative relationships--as long as they stay,
in your words, "civil (and) nonjudgmental."

I would like to make a final comment which I think is important to both
performance and production. In my opinion, it's important to look at a
project from the bigger picture first, then work through the small details
second. In the end, all that matters to an audience is how the final product
sounds. If your experience is anything like mine, once you figure out what
you want that final product to sound like, remembering that your audience
isn't primarily made up of musicians and audio engineers, you may find that
all the technical details you were thinking about at first aren't as
important as you thought they were.

In conclusion, your post has pointed up the very aspect of the audio
production field that makes it at once interesting and frustrating: there
are as many philosophies about how to do it as there are people who do it.
But, on second thought, perhaps the same can be said of many other subjects:
performance, songwriting, and blindness skills, among many, many others.
Thanks for starting an interesting dialogue; I look forward to seeing where
it goes.

Warmly,

Chris Nusbaum

-----Original Message-----
From: MusicTlk <musictlk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Christopher
Gilland via MusicTlk
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 12:47 PM
To: David Fritz via MusicTlk <musictlk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Christopher Gilland <clgilland07 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] I'd like to have a civil, nonjudgemental discussion
about audio production techniques, if we can manage to do so.

David wrote in part::

Many of these recipes, do it like this or like that, is to hide flaws in
cheap sound synthesis, cheap sound cards etc.

Can you elaborate on that a bit perhaps with a basic practical example?

I mean, here's the thing. Don't get me wrong. I do agree that a certain
level of mixsing and mastering definitely! definitely definitely! should be
applied. But I say, don't just do it because you think it makes it sound
better/sexy. Do it because you're really going for a very very very specific
sound.

I'll give you a really great example and we'll stick with vocals, 'cause,
why not. Everyone loves them, so...

Perhaps you've heard of a really popular technique used by a lot of 
engineers these days called the "vocal throws" effect.

Take the song, Don't Turn Around by Ace of Bass. Great great great great 
example.

If you listen to the vocal literally at the very very very very 
beginning of the song, the female says, "I will survive, without you."

OK, listen on the phrase, "Without you." You hear how for just that 
split 3 sylabals, no more, when you hear the word, "you," you kind of 
hear this delayish effect that is tempo synced, probably a dotted 8th 
note, that echos back that same phrase, "without you", and kind of 
swells away into the song itself. That, is what I mean by a vocal throw. 
So, things like that, you could use a bit of a delay to achieve, but to 
just apply delay because, humdy ding dong, it sounds all coo, n all? 
Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

More directly put, I say use the 80 20 principle... 80 percent of your 
work should be in the production. People always send me their songs to 
critique, and you know what, David? I can't help but each time to get so 
cracked up laughing.

They send me these ProTools or Logic/Reaper sessions, and they go, Hey 
Chris. Listen to my mix.

It's like, Wut? Like, doo'ood! Ehh kayyy. I don't wanna listen to your 
mix. I wanna listen to your song!

Ya know, people're like, "Hey Chris, why does my mix sound so ammature?" 
Unfortunately, I have to be bold enough to be honest with them while 
also being respectful, and that's not usually easy to do with the way 
they present the material content to me.

You will relate to this, if you've been working this field like you said 
since 78. That's even longer than I've been alive, uh, no offense. I 
literally mean, 9 times out of 10, literally! The mix isn't the problem. 
The problem is the production/arrangement.

Let me tell you something. If anyone sends a song to an engineer who 
says, just send me what you got, no need to do much with editing the 
vocals/comping them, no need to worry about good vocal technique, no 
need to worry about good music dynamics, and by that I don't mean just 
volume dynamics. I'm speaking here more of building your song. Cutting 
out lots of the low mids frequence range to unmuddy up that part of the 
spectrum, etcetera, just send me what you got. I can do some abbra 
caddabra magic on it, and make the song sound unbelievably good, trust 
and leave it to me, Sir/Mam/Mix, don't! And I repeat, don't! don't don't 
don't! waist your money, as you'll be very very sadly throwing your 
pennies to the... no pun intended, Ozone. Those people are fakes. 
Period! Full stop, Cerca, the fat lady sang.

You send a legit and credible producer something like that where you've 
not taken your time putting together the arrangement to start off 
sounding really really good, that producer's not even going to take your 
money, I guarantee it. They'll just say, "Sorry, caint help ya." Or, at 
the very least if they do! work with you, they'll tell you straight up, 
I can, and will mix this, but just know, it's not gonna improve the 
quality of this song, end of discussion.

You know, it's like people start at the wrong part of the process. 
Mixing yes, should be an aspect, don't get me wrong, but that comes at 
the end, not! the beginning.

Think of it this way. I tell you I'm gonna build this really really 
great house. It's just gonna be the awesomest thing ever! Oh man, it's 
gonna be great. It's gonna have nice windows, nice hardwood floors, 
beautiful wallpaper, nice skylight highrises, a beautiful back 
porch/deck, a wonderful nercery for the kiddos, heck, I'll even build 
that nice changing table right into the wall you need so you don't have 
to go buy one from Baby's R Us.

You say to me, "Oh this is wonderful! Where are you gonna start with the 
building?" I say, "Hmm. I dunno. I'm thinking maybe of starting with 
painting."

Wut?

I mean, do you see how absurd this is? You haven't even dug the land, 
you've not determined the foundation, you've not checked with the city 
to see if you even could build property on this area in the first place.

Kind of reminds me of an old bible song I learned in the 1980's as a 
preschooler. The wise man built his house upon the rock, and the house 
stood tall. Yet the foolish man built his house upon the sand, and the 
house went smash!

In other words, get it right at the source. Then, and only! then, start 
worrying about the still rellavent, but less! rellavent stuff like 
mixing. If you can produce something up front that sounds incredible, 
chances are much better that when you go to mix, edit, and master 
things, you'll have a heck of a lot easier a time on yourself.

My challenge to anyone who doesn't believe me on this is, give yourself 
6 hours all total to produce a song. It doesn't have to be something you 
wrote. It can be a cover if you feel more comfortable going that route 
instead. But, I want you to take 4 of those hours actually producing 
recording and arranging your recording. Don't worry about the mixing or 
about gosh dang it, I was flat on that phrase, etc. Just arrange it and 
record it. Then, take only! the last 2 of those 6 hours, absolutely no 
more under any conditions. Force yourself to that time restraint. 2 
final hours, and only! 2, and only! after things have already been 
tracked, to then edit things as needed, and finally mix.

I guarantee 1 billion percent, you'll see a night and day's difference 
in the final project.

Chris.

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