[nabs-l] Social Etiquette

Hope Paulos hope.paulos at maine.edu
Mon Nov 3 11:51:33 UTC 2008 

Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can 
have a code between them (that is not known to the public) and 
when the person exhibits those behaviors the person can say the 
"Code word." This is what the nfb centers do.

Hope and Beignet

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette

>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's 
nails.  I
>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did.  
God
>knows when I saw him last!  Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a
>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e.  pking of 
eyes,
>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with 
me.
>Beth

>On 11/2/08, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self
>> stimulation ...  self soothing.  They feel good so we do them
>> naturally.  We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like.

>> Dave

>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote:
>>>This is such a great topic.  I admit that I had blindisms and 
still struggle
>>>to extinguish them totally.  I have eye-poking issues and rock 
occasionally.
>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind 
people.
>>> Why
>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and 
have to
>>>extinguish them as we grow?
>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a 
bunch of
>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers 
out of
>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my 
age, or
>>>much older.  It was weird.  If I work there again though I think 
much of my
>>>shyness will be gone though.  But how do you tell people their 
behavior is
>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts?

>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>>Of Hope Paulos
>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM
>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette

>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this
>>>to be a wonderful post.  I just wanted to add an experience of my
>>>own and of others with whom I work.  When I was very young, I had
>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair,
>>>and I would poke my eye.  My parents would not allow me to do
>>>this.  When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how
>>>much I'd matured.  She said she was so proud that I didn't
>>>exhibit those blindisms.  I asked my mother why she insisted that
>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially
>>>inappropriate.  There are times, especially being totally blind,
>>>when  people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they
>>>don't even know this fact.  My mother said that she knew that I
>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not
>>>rocking or poking  their eyes.  She needed to put a stop to these
>>>behaviors.  She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially
>>>appropriate.  Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were
>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in.  It is in no way my
>>>intention to offend people.  If I have i apologize.     When I
>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain
>>>sounds or flap their hands.  These students ranged in age from 9
>>>to 14.  It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors
>>>at those  ages.  The students  progressed when it came time for
>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have
>>>been extinguished fully.

>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com
>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100
>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette

>>>>Hi all,

>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for
>>>high
>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and
>>>>beyond.  One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact
>>>sheet is
>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on
>>>the
>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around.  Just as
>>>there is
>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way
>>>to
>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one
>>>setting
>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one.
>>>Really what
>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations
>>>and
>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in
>>>those
>>>>situations.

>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and
>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good
>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public
>>>>behavior.  However, there is a big difference between simply
>>>knowing
>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms.  In
>>>order
>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also
>>>be
>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full  control of their
>>>>behavior.  Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who
>>>picks
>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know
>>>that
>>>>it's inappropriate.  More likely, though, is that he's  been told
>>>it's
>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply
>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish
>>>him for
>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in
>>>the
>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble
>>>for
>>>>picking his nose.  A third possibility is that he is motivated to
>>>not
>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's
>>>doing
>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch
>>>inside
>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc.  The point is that mere knowledge of
>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally,
>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate.  There are some
>>>behaviors
>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can
>>>become so
>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to
>>>stop
>>>>they still  have difficulty doing it.  Eye-poking is an example
>>>of a
>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's
>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are
>>>motivated
>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating
>>>it.
>>>>(Speaking from  personal experience here, but also from
>>>conversations
>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop
>>>and
>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes).  To give a
>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about
>>>the
>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but
>>>there
>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't
>>>care,
>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize
>>>their
>>>>time so they're not late, etc.

>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve
>>>their
>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate
>>>(knowledge),
>>>>but by instilling motivation.  Blind kids may be less motivated
>>>than
>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because
>>>they've
>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see
>>>other
>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior.  So I think the
>>>emphasis
>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about
>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different
>>>social
>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just
>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things.  Giving rewards for
>>>good
>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but
>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around
>>>to
>>>>observe their actions.  Ideally they will learn through
>>>experience that
>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others
>>>makes
>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals.

>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas?

>>>>Arielle

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