[nabs-l] Social Etiquette

Tue Nov 4 03:29:47 UTC 2008

I should think a fine, said fine going into the chapter/affiliate 
treasury, might do the trick!

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette

That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's nails.  I
admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did.  God
knows when I saw him last!  Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a
gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of eyes,
moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with me.
Beth

On 11/2/08, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self
> stimulation ... self soothing.  They feel good so we do them
> naturally.  We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like.
>
> Dave
>
> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote:
>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still 
>>struggle
>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock 
>>occasionally.
>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind 
>>people.
>> Why
>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have 
>>to
>>extinguish them as we grow?
>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch 
>>of
>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out 
>>of
>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, 
>>or
>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of 
>>my
>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior 
>>is
>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts?
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>Of Hope Paulos
>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM
>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>
>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this
>>to be a wonderful post.  I just wanted to add an experience of my
>>own and of others with whom I work.  When I was very young, I had
>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair,
>>and I would poke my eye.  My parents would not allow me to do
>>this.  When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how
>>much I'd matured.  She said she was so proud that I didn't
>>exhibit those blindisms.  I asked my mother why she insisted that
>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially
>>inappropriate.  There are times, especially being totally blind,
>>when  people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they
>>don't even know this fact.  My mother said that she knew that I
>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not
>>rocking or poking  their eyes.  She needed to put a stop to these
>>behaviors.  She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially
>>appropriate.  Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were
>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in.  It is in no way my
>>intention to offend people.  If I have i apologize.     When I
>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain
>>sounds or flap their hands.  These students ranged in age from 9
>>to 14.  It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors
>>at those  ages.  The students  progressed when it came time for
>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have
>>been extinguished fully.
>>
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com
>> >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100
>> >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>
>> >Hi all,
>>
>> >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for
>>high
>> >school students to understand when transitioning to college and
>> >beyond.  One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact
>>sheet is
>> >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on
>>the
>> >situation and the expectations of the people around.  Just as
>>there is
>> >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way
>>to
>> >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one
>>setting
>> >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one.
>>Really what
>> >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations
>>and
>> >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in
>>those
>> >situations.
>>
>> >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and
>> >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good
>> >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public
>> >behavior.  However, there is a big difference between simply
>>knowing
>> >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms.  In
>>order
>> >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also
>>be
>> >motivated to comply with them, and be in full  control of their
>> >behavior.  Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who
>>picks
>> >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know
>>that
>> >it's inappropriate.  More likely, though, is that he's  been told
>>it's
>> >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply
>> >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish
>>him for
>> >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in
>>the
>> >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble
>>for
>> >picking his nose.  A third possibility is that he is motivated to
>>not
>> >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's
>>doing
>> >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch
>>inside
>> >his nose to relieve it, etc.  The point is that mere knowledge of
>> >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally,
>> >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate.  There are some
>>behaviors
>> >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can
>>become so
>> >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to
>>stop
>> >they still  have difficulty doing it.  Eye-poking is an example
>>of a
>> >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's
>> >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are
>>motivated
>> >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating
>>it.
>> >(Speaking from  personal experience here, but also from
>>conversations
>> >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop
>>and
>> >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes).  To give a
>> >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about
>>the
>> >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but
>>there
>> >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't
>>care,
>> >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize
>>their
>> >time so they're not late, etc.
>>
>> >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve
>>their
>> >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate
>>(knowledge),
>> >but by instilling motivation.  Blind kids may be less motivated
>>than
>> >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because
>>they've
>> >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see
>>other
>> >people's negative reactions to their behavior.  So I think the
>>emphasis
>> >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about
>> >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different
>>social
>> >situations and building connections with others-rather than just
>> >telling them to do or not do certain things.  Giving rewards for
>>good
>> >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but
>> >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around
>>to
>> >observe their actions.  Ideally they will learn through
>>experience that
>> >following social norms and initiating connections with others
>>makes
>> >them happier and helps them to reach their goals.
>>
>> >So how do we do this? Any ideas?
>>
>> >Arielle
>>
>> >_______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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