[nabs-l] Social Etiquette

Wed Nov 5 01:36:33 UTC 2008

I could do the same at a pon shop for only $6.  Beat that!
Beth

On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson <jackson.dezman at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at Wal-Mart.
>
> Dezman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>
>
>> That's funny.  I was in band for four years or more of my life.  I am
>> a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to
>> fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't
>> theirs.  But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like
>> Joseph said.
>> Beth
>>
>> On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia <yvgarcia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hope,
>>> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer
>>> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a
>>> technique
>>> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an
>>> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't
>>> too
>>> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the
>>> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This
>>> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to
>>> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or
>>> word
>>> "No" and "Stop That".
>>>
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> Yolanda
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>
>>>
>>>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a
>>>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person
>>>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is
>>>> what
>>>> the nfb centers do.
>>>>
>>>> Hope and Beignet
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>>
>>>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's
>>>> nails.  I
>>>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did.
>>>> God
>>>>>knows when I saw him last!  Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a
>>>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e.  pking of
>>>> eyes,
>>>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with
>>>> me.
>>>>>Beth
>>>>
>>>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self
>>>>>> stimulation ...  self soothing.  They feel good so we do them
>>>>>> naturally.  We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like.
>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote:
>>>>>>>This is such a great topic.  I admit that I had blindisms and
>>>> still struggle
>>>>>>>to extinguish them totally.  I have eye-poking issues and rock
>>>> occasionally.
>>>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind
>>>> people.
>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and
>>>> have to
>>>>>>>extinguish them as we grow?
>>>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a
>>>> bunch of
>>>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers
>>>> out of
>>>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my
>>>> age, or
>>>>>>>much older.  It was weird.  If I work there again though I think
>>>> much of my
>>>>>>>shyness will be gone though.  But how do you tell people their
>>>> behavior is
>>>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos
>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM
>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>>
>>>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this
>>>>>>>to be a wonderful post.  I just wanted to add an experience of my
>>>>>>>own and of others with whom I work.  When I was very young, I had
>>>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair,
>>>>>>>and I would poke my eye.  My parents would not allow me to do
>>>>>>>this.  When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how
>>>>>>>much I'd matured.  She said she was so proud that I didn't
>>>>>>>exhibit those blindisms.  I asked my mother why she insisted that
>>>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially
>>>>>>>inappropriate.  There are times, especially being totally blind,
>>>>>>>when  people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they
>>>>>>>don't even know this fact.  My mother said that she knew that I
>>>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not
>>>>>>>rocking or poking  their eyes.  She needed to put a stop to these
>>>>>>>behaviors.  She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially
>>>>>>>appropriate.  Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were
>>>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in.  It is in no way my
>>>>>>>intention to offend people.  If I have i apologize.     When I
>>>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain
>>>>>>>sounds or flap their hands.  These students ranged in age from 9
>>>>>>>to 14.  It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors
>>>>>>>at those  ages.  The students  progressed when it came time for
>>>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have
>>>>>>>been extinguished fully.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100
>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for
>>>>>>>high
>>>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and
>>>>>>>>beyond.  One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact
>>>>>>>sheet is
>>>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around.  Just as
>>>>>>>there is
>>>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one
>>>>>>>setting
>>>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one.
>>>>>>>Really what
>>>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in
>>>>>>>those
>>>>>>>>situations.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and
>>>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good
>>>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public
>>>>>>>>behavior.  However, there is a big difference between simply
>>>>>>>knowing
>>>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms.  In
>>>>>>>order
>>>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also
>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full  control of their
>>>>>>>>behavior.  Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who
>>>>>>>picks
>>>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>it's inappropriate.  More likely, though, is that he's  been told
>>>>>>>it's
>>>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply
>>>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish
>>>>>>>him for
>>>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble
>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>picking his nose.  A third possibility is that he is motivated to
>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's
>>>>>>>doing
>>>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch
>>>>>>>inside
>>>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc.  The point is that mere knowledge of
>>>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally,
>>>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate.  There are some
>>>>>>>behaviors
>>>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can
>>>>>>>become so
>>>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to
>>>>>>>stop
>>>>>>>>they still  have difficulty doing it.  Eye-poking is an example
>>>>>>>of a
>>>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's
>>>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are
>>>>>>>motivated
>>>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating
>>>>>>>it.
>>>>>>>>(Speaking from  personal experience here, but also from
>>>>>>>conversations
>>>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes).  To give a
>>>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but
>>>>>>>there
>>>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't
>>>>>>>care,
>>>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize
>>>>>>>their
>>>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve
>>>>>>>their
>>>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate
>>>>>>>(knowledge),
>>>>>>>>but by instilling motivation.  Blind kids may be less motivated
>>>>>>>than
>>>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because
>>>>>>>they've
>>>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see
>>>>>>>other
>>>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior.  So I think the
>>>>>>>emphasis
>>>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about
>>>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different
>>>>>>>social
>>>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just
>>>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things.  Giving rewards for
>>>>>>>good
>>>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but
>>>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>observe their actions.  Ideally they will learn through
>>>>>>>experience that
>>>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others
>>>>>>>makes
>>>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>>>>>>Arielle
>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>os%40maine..edu
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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