[nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
Beth
thebluesisloose at gmail.com
Sat Nov 15 14:26:59 UTC 2008
You're right, Sarah. However, my thing is that I've metsome great
friends while getting my food, but I meet my true friends doing other
thigs like going out to restaurants and in class and walking around.
Beth
On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
> I think the food thing is all a part of the university experience and is
> part of socialization too. How can we meet true new friends if we rely
> totally on others for support in basic things like getting food? Obviously
> assistance in this area is great and necessary, but note how I said full
> reliance on others.
> Sarah
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:37 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>
> Serena,
>
> Very well said and I totally agree. While serving food and navigating
> cafeterias is important, in college academics and socializing are more
> important. We have to advocate to instructors, hire/fire readers, scan
> matterial and lots of stuff our peers won't deal with. So navigating a
> cafeteria would add one more stress and chore to it. Part of independence
> is knowing when to get assistance.
>
> Serena, totally identify with you on the small hands and spatial
> orientation challenges and this makes navigating a loud cafeteria easier
> said than done.
>
> I've been to other cafeterias with family and coworkers when I was at
> internships and in my opinion college cafeterias are not like the "real
> world". College dining halls are more loud, full of chaos, and more messy
> since students can be that way and won't clean up. Oh, and have you come
> across tables where many chairs are sticking out. People don't have the
> curtesy to push in chairs! I do not see that at regular cafeterias. I
> think there are other ways in college to work on carrying trays and getting
> food. How about at mall food courts.
> If you go to a buffet with friends this is a better place to practice i
> think. Its quieter.
>
> Serena, if you're still reading here is some ideas for the spatial
> orientation thing. Of course if you have assistance you can walk sighted
> guide and not worry about it but if you walk more independently here are
> some thoughts. I would not recommend at college settings but try other
> cafeterias such as at a work site; there was an excellent cafeteria I ate at
>
> in the county government center.
> I've not done it on my own yet but almost did and I've talked to other blind
>
> people about it, so here it goes.
> For orientation:
> Walk around with a sighted friend at a pretty quiet time. To know this,
> talk to the manager when business slows down.
> This way you won't be disrupting the flow of traffic and have time to
> explore.
> The sighted person can tell you what station serves what. They can explain
> where the utensils and trays are.
> Listen for clues such as the cash register. See if you can smell different
> aromas from different corners. For instance I think the grill has a
> distinct smell.
> Ask what the layout is if you can't figure it out. For instance the
> government cafeteria is a semi circle with the salad/soup bar in the middle.
>
> After exploring write down what you remember. If it helps to see
> relationships, have them help you make a tactile map.
> When you actually go on your own and buy food, if you can't figure it out,
> ask questions.
>
> Hth,
>
> Ashley
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>
>
>> Peter,
>>
>> Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the
>> cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're
>> not great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands.
>> The cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in
>
>> the sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of
>> the only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about
>> getting help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing
>> with academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to
>
>> negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at
>> orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something
>> independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is
>> knowing when to ask for assistance.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>
>>
>>> Good evening everyone,
>>>
>>> Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your
>>> food.
>>> Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room
>>> layouts
>>> including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a
>>> cafeteria
>>> line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best
>>> medicine for this condition.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go
>>> to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very
>>> big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in
>>> walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with
>>> ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big.
>>> One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs
>>> everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice
>>> place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the
>>> woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told
>>> you this, or merely a student?
>>>
>>> Hope and Beignet
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is
>>> because
>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me
>>> today
>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager
>>> saying
>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just
>>> bring it
>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if
>>> it
>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my
>>> basic
>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd
>>> have
>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who
>>> said
>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in
>>> that
>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's
>>> comments
>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of
>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division
>>> of
>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer
>>> dollars
>>>>going into MY meal plan.
>>>>Beth
>>>
>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I
>>> don't mean to
>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food
>>> in college.
>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small
>>> hands. I
>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but
>>> then, the
>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've
>>> bought my own
>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to
>>> campus and
>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than
>>> trying to
>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene.
>>>
>>>>> Serena
>>>
>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the
>>> staff
>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray?
>>>>>> Beth
>>>
>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Beth,
>>>
>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a
>>> good
>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before
>>> your are
>>>>>>> finished shopping.
>>>
>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had
>>> that
>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate
>>> if she
>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice
>>> nursing
>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride
>>> offer to
>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it.
>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus
>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate
>>> a
>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have
>>> to wait
>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence,
>>> my
>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait."
>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover <liamskitten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Beth,
>>>
>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to
>>> take
>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next
>>> window
>>>>>>>>> of opportunity.
>>>>>>>>> Courtney
>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to
>>> bring
>>>>>>>>>> me down there.
>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth,
>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of
>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive
>>> tray
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with
>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your
>>> ability
>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to
>>> impact
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> day.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge
>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get
>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right
>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre
>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to
>>> maneuver
>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff
>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I
>>> needed
>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I
>>>>>>>>>>> spoke
>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people
>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this.
>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> hold
>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with
>>> holding
>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The
>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the
>>> second
>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the
>>> serving
>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an
>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an
>>> option,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the
>>> food/setting up
>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the
>>> buffet
>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself
>>> independently
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing
>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes
>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since
>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving
>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to
>>> overcome
>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve
>>> ourselves
>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I
>>> was a
>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved
>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center
>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on)
>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal
>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils
>>> correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great
>>>>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too,
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move
>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly
>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to
>>>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac).
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to
>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the
>>> weight is
>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that
>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and
>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is
>>> spreading.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll
>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide
>>> area.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to
>>> serve
>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest
>>> time with
>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my
>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> was.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was
>>> holding
>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually
>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped
>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I
>>> had to
>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the
>>> bowl
>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people
>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I
>>> bring it
>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel
>>> (like
>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant
>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the
>>> handle
>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even
>>>>>>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will
>>> fit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> love
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" <harryhogue at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do
>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because
>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree
>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> important...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I
>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on
>>> buffet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a
>>> survor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <harryhogue at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate
>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> family
>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> however,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica
>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew
>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve
>>> ourselves
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so
>>> diferent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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