[nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology

Tue Nov 18 03:00:00 UTC 2008

Harry,
When I was a student at the Louisiana Center, we all did an activity in 
which we got to cut down Christmas trees either totally blind or wearing 
sleepshades. So yes, it can be done.

Dezman
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Harry Hogue" <harryhogue at yahoo.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology

As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even come up, 
and I wouldn't ever say i.

You make a lot of sense. What really gets me is that I really am not sure, 
deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the things that someone 
hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the crux of the matter. They 
say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, but can they really? Cutting 
Christmas trees, for example. I don't know, but can a totally blind person 
really cut down a Christmas tree with no sighteed help?

Harry

P.S. I really want to believe, I really, really do.

--- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:

From: T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM

That's your right, of course.  You're free to go on telling people
you're
impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of
thinking while simultaneously trying to change it.  If you ask the right
person, I'm too blind to be a teacher.  How exactly does me saying,
"But I
am only visually impaired" change their minds?  It doesn't--their
minds
were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then.

All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down.  And
shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education,
not provide it.  I'm not going to contribute to that.

Joseph

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote:
>I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear. I think
politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about why we 
call
the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I agree with 
out
of the two - blind and alternative.
>
>Harry
>
>
>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>From: T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM
>
>Harry,
>
>I object to the concept of political correctness outright.  It forces
>people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say.
>Morally, that seems wrong to me.
>
>I endeavor to say exactly what I think.  Not everyone likes that.  And you
>know what?  That's fine.  In fact, sometimes I'm wrong.  Thing is,
>you've
>got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then,
>or you'd best not say anything.
>
>Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have
>everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any
>number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for.  Down that
>road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson.  *grin*
>
>Joseph
>
>On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote:
>>Here's an interesting thought. We get all bent out of shape about
the
>word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically
>correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are,
but yet
>we also insist that the techniques we use be called
"alternative." I
>understand and agree with that one, because "substitute
techniques"
>does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we
are on
>our termonology.
>>
>>
>>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook <westbchris at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>From: Chris Westbrook <westbchris at gmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM
>>
>>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually
>impaired
>>you are necessarily denying your blindness.  I will use an example with
>another
>>disability from my own life.  I am hearing impaired.  Notice I said
hearing
>>impaired, not deaf.  I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness
>>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability
to
>speak,
>>etc.  If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no
that I
>do
>>not deny my hearing loss.  I wear two hearing aids.  I also accept that
>certain
>>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street
crossings
>and
>>socializing in crowded situations.  Why is it deemed OK for me to call
>myself
>>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual
to
>call
>>themselves visually impaired?  after all, even if you are totally blind
you
>are
>>visually impaired.  The more I think about these things, the more I
find
>myself
>>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy.
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter"
>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
>>
>>
>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words.  The NFB
>>philosophy is about actions and attitudes.
>>>
>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will
take
>>offense.  If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see
much
>but am
>>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful.
>>>
>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too.
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor
wrote:
>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that
was a
>>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around.
>Just as
>>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we
>>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only
>reading the
>>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with
all
>of you
>>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual
>vision.
>>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they
even
>know
>>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're
>>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find
others
>out
>>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students,
>>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on
>blindness.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Corbb O'Connor
>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers,
>>>>
>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs
board
>and
>>as
>>>> nabs members,  out on this very interesting point. I have
recently
>>noticed
>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can
be a
>good
>>one. It
>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such
as
>>visually
>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of
>people.
>>These
>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might
not
>>want to
>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired
>person...
>>this
>>>> group is for you too!
>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then
>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the
>fact
>>that we
>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into
believing
>that
>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you
>>>> are legally blind,    the key word is blind. One is not going
to
>be
>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they?
>>>>
>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get
>blurred
>>and if
>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to
get
>these
>>new
>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not  to pick on one
>specific
>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems
to be
>the
>>most
>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line-
>>"Attention
>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This
makes
>>some sense
>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self
identify
>as
>>visually
>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use
the
>>terminology
>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation
>family?
>>>>
>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to
refer
>to
>>other
>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the
email
>>subject line
>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually
>announced
>>to the NABS
>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and
Visually
>>Impaired
>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like,
"new
>>blindness
>>>> group of facebook!
>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific
>group or
>>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as
visually
>>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently,
also.
>I
>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and
relevant
>>example.
>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe
>that
>>perhaps
>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little
lax
>and
>>blur
>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of
all
>blind
>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall,
not
>as
>>solid
>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the
Federation...?>
>>>>
>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers
among
>us
>>debate
>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to
our
>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness
and
>>what it
>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter
of
>>importance?
>>>>
>>>> Thoughtfully yours,
>>>>
>>>> Janice
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp"
>><terri.rupp at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NABS list serve" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Karen and all,
>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to
>>nonmembers.
>>>>> Facebook is just one of them.  Although as you said, the
>>philosophy of the
>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that
word
>>"Blind" is  sometimes a
>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or
accept
>their
>>>>> blindness.  It was only until a few years ago that I was
one
>of
>>them.  I
>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me
as
>>blind.  I felt
>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually
>>impaired".  The acceptance
>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each
person
>goes
>>through
>>>>> differently.  What we have to do is serve as positive
blind
>role
>>models,
>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being
short.
>It is
>>simply
>>>>> a
>>>>> characteristic.  Once we attract them to these groups, we
can
>>promote NFB
>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our
>>philosophy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours,
>>>>> Terri Rupp, President
>>>>> National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>
>>_______________________________________________
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