[nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series?
Joe Orozco
jsorozco at gmail.com
Wed Apr 22 04:08:45 UTC 2009
Ashley,
I agree that self-disclosure should occur at the point of interview. I am
by no means advocating that a person should hide their condition, only that
it be treated like any other characteristic and use the interview as a time
to touch on the subject before moving on to other more pertinent skills.
Sarah,
Unintentional disclosure of blindness in the job entries of a resume does
not have to be a negative point against you. There are sighted staff that
work at the National Center for the Blind in Baltimore who would add their
employment at the Center to their resumes. A future employer may see the
entry and wonder why the person was working at a blindness-related
organization, but then this is an opportunity for you to use the cover
letter to help balance the employer's view of what it is you have to offer,
leaving the point about your own blindness condition a mere point of
curiosity.
The issue of scholarships is another matter. If you feel they would enhance
your likelihood of being hired by an employer, by all means include the
item. Mentioning your having won an NFB national scholarship may increase
your chances of being hired at one of the summer training centers.
Otherwise, whether or not you obtained a scholarship will generally not make
or break a potential interview offer, with the possible exception of the
Fulbright, Rhode or other highly prestigious and well known opportunities.
I would focus instead on awards you may have earned from a scholastic
activity such as debate, honors society, dean's list, etc.
Jim,
The only point with which I take issue in your response is that of your
perceived dishonesty with the employer at the point you do not mention your
blindness in your initial contact. As I previously said to Ashley, I never
advocated a case for lying about or hiding your blindness. Rather, I said
the point is a non-issue, because an interview should be granted on whether
your qualifications meet the vacancy requirements, not on whether or not you
can see. I would hope that a blind applicant would not apply for an opening
for which they know they are not qualified and still throw in the point
about having a disability. Why stack up the odds against yourself? But,
more to the point, finding a job is a test of competence under the best of
circumstances. In the current economy it is exceptionally important to
maintain control of the process as best as you can and minimize risks that
may set your application aside. It may not be fair to presume people will
reject an applicant on disability alone, but nor is it fair that more than
70 percent of blind people are unemployed. You're competing against that 70
percent as well as every member of the general public who may stumble upon
the vacancy announcement. It's time to market yourself in the most positive
light possible, at least until some distant future when blindness is not
seen as the debilitating condition it is seen today.
Joe Orozco
"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:08 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series?
Hi Joe,
I think job readiness is something nabs should put into its
agenda more like at student seminars.
Yes its hard to teach resume building and interview skills.
Your campus career center can help out though. Mine has
workshops on topics and I plan to go to them or you can sit
down privately with a staff member and they can critique your
resume. Interviewing is a learning experience for everyone and
I've heard applicants get better over time.
As to disclosure, I agree it should not be in the cover letter
or resume.
However, I think disclosing before or during the interview is
fine. Jim did the right thing by disclosing. He cannot drive
and that is essential to the job. The employer cannot
accomodate him if he is not upfront and honest about his condition.
While blindness should not be the central point of the
interview, explaining how you do things may put them at ease.
For instance if they ask about your communication skills, you
can say something like "During meetings I took notes with my
Braille Note and my notes allowed me to carry out my
responsibilities after the meeting."
This is a personal thing and no two blind people will handle it
the same way. But that's some of my opinion.
Ashley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series?
> Jim,
>
> I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly
why, NABS should
> incorporate job readiness into its operation. That's part of a longer
> dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over.
For now
> I'll
> offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation.
>
> Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching
is never
> easy,
> blind or sighted. People, including myself, will give you a
list of do's
> and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your
innovative ideas,
> your
> strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for
> yourself. No two resumes are the same, and no two employers
will share
> the
> same views about what disability means for their expectations of the
> vacancy
> in question.
>
> It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to
the ADA, the
> EEOC and all things special accommodations. Some people I've
met become
> so
> infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so
> obsessed
> with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to
> meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself. I think it's
> important to know your rights, but it's quite a different
matter when you
> allow yourself to become a textbook operator. I think people
run the risk
> of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there
is education
> to
> be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of
the potential
> employer and from the perspective of the applicant.
>
>>From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to
belittle you for
> having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your
> abilities. If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could
> pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime
> you're
> still without a job. My personal take on the subject is that you had
> better
> be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're
going to complain
> at all. Laws have been written to protect individuals from
unfair hiring
> standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as
much to you
> as
> the applicant as well as the offending company. While the legal
> proceedings
> are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and
understand how
> to
> engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your
> disability.
>
> So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA.
> Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law
does not do
> rather than what it could do. Understand the relationship between
> yourself
> and the potential employer. When you're applying for a job,
you're asking
> to be allowed to be a member of their team. Unnecessary
emphasis on laws
> and regulations does not make you a team player. It makes
you a potential
> liability. Keep pushing for the type of training you are
advocating, but
> never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations.
> There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a
> well-spent half hour. What is harder to teach is resume building,
> interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the
> basic
> human interaction involved in these interviews.
>
> My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the
jobs I have
> previously held and am currently pursuing. If it's a
blindness-related
> job,
> it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind
and could be
> a
> direct benefit to the organization's mission. Otherwise, there is no
> reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume. Some
people balk at
> this idea. The thought process is that stating the fact that you are
> blind
> only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to
accomplish despite
> your being blind.
>
> My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and
then there is
> confidence. An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove
a point. A
> confident man allows those around him to arrive at this
conclusion all by
> themselves. If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that
blindness is
> only
> a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make
blindness a
> noteworthy point of interest in my credentials. The hiring
manager need
> not
> know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or
> Hispanic or six feet tall. Does this make things awkward
when you first
> meet the interviewer? Things are going to be awkward with or without
> advance notice. The outcome of that interview comes down to
how big of a
> deal you make of your blindness. Writing in your cover
letter or resume
> that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them
> decide
> how big of a deal it is to them. When you hunt for a job, you cannot
> afford
> to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt
that they will
> overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases. Keep
control of
> the
> deck of cards as long as you can.
>
> Now, to your specific situation. You do not have to respond to these
> points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in
your field
> of
> interest? What, outside of academic studies, can you put on
your resume
> that makes you stand out from the other candidates? Are
there internships
> offered by way of the agency you have applied to? What did
you learn from
> your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can
you change
> about it as you move forward into your next potential interview?
>
> When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the
> notion
> of volunteer service was emphasized. Many people get so
overwhelmed by
> their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of
> national
> service as a means to jump start their career. Yes, it may
postpone that
> first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your
> network,
> your skills and familiarity with the field in question. You
may very well
> figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what
you expected.
>
> But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very
much stubborn
> about going into public land management. If this is true, this is me
> smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it. Do not be
> discouraged. What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude
about your
> visual abilities. I'm reading your post about those things
you can do
> with
> the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much
anymore. Which
> is it? Either you can do something or you cannot. At some
point you're
> going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile
> according to those things you are completely confident about.
If you're
> waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about
something
> you
> cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you
sound half
> as
> cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire
> yourself?
> So you can't drive. Put that up front and spend the rest of
the hour or
> so
> developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid
not to hire
> you
> despite this fact.
>
> In my public administration degree back in undergrad there
was a land use
> course I was obligated to take from our geography department.
I hated it,
> because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods. I
honestly had no idea
> there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical
> street and the distance between the street and somebody's
porch. I can
> see
> how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my
teammates to
> get
> from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I
> could
> to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final
> report.
>
> Keep a portfolio. Show off samples of any reports and graphs
you may have
> had a hand at producing. Draw their attention away from the
logistics and
> put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site
itself. You're
> a
> bad ass if they figure out how to get you there. You
convince me from the
> way you express yourself about it. Now go out and convince them.
>
> I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about
> doing
> what you want to do. I did not have to get far in my class
that long ago
> spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I
would be a land
> manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field.
Are there
> any
> associations you could join?
>
> Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor
benefit to
> you, and I love those 6 p's. If they weren't so bold I'd ask
Terri to let
> me include that on our web site.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed
> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series?
>
> Hello,
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a
> job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be
> helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting
> together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most
> effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I
> don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything
> about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me,
> or how I can use them to my advantage.
>
> I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and
> advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility
> employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be:
> 1. Reasonable accomidations
> 2. Disability law
> 3. disclosure stratagies
> 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5.
> Other employment resources
>
> These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my
> head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the
> NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and
> it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their
> education.
>
> Jim
>
> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed."
>
>
>
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