[nabs-l] studying abroad advise

Sun Apr 26 00:36:29 UTC 2009

Arielle
I think that Priscilla doesn't have the time to go to a center since she
said that time was running out (please correct me of I am wrong). I totally
agree that you should be able to go on this trip by yourself without a
sighted person right next to you all of the time.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Priscilla, I am not sure about the details of your proposed trip, like
> how long you're planning to stay and whether it's a school-sponsored
> group trip where a bunch of people go together or simply an exchange
> program where you take classes at European universities as an
> international student. I will, however, give you advice assuming it's
> the most "risky" situation--a prolonged stay in Europe without being
> part of a school group.
>
> I studied in Australia under this type of program for four months
> during the spring of 2007. There I took classes at the University of
> Melbourne, participated in sightseeing and other tourist events, and
> also lived in a residential college (dorm), and I didn't have a guide.
> In fact, I didn't know a single person in the whole country and only
> had had brief email contact with the Australian program coordinator. I
> got a few mobility lessons from a staff member at the local guide dog
> school to learn my way around the campus and from the dorm to the
> nearest tram stop, and I also got electronic copies of my course
> materials from the disability services office in Melbourne. Other than
> that I was on my own.
>
> I’m telling you this not to make myself sound like an amazing blind
> person, because I’m not. On the contrary, my cane skills at that time
> were far from exemplary. The fact is that I’m one of several blind
> students who have traveled abroad without hired companions—including
> students who went to places where English wasn’t the native language.
> (For example, Kate Mendez from New York State went to Japan). Nor will
> I deny the fact that I was scared out of my mind before I went. But,
> now that I’m back safe and sound, I will say wholeheartedly that the
> experience made me a stronger, more flexible, and ultimately a more
> independent adult. Adjusting to life in Colorado after spending my
> entire childhood and college years in Arizona (snow and all) wouldn’t
> have been nearly as easy if I hadn’t gone abroad by myself. If I’d had
> a companion follow me around everywhere, I wouldn’t have experienced
> the ups and downs of trying to make new friends in a foreign country
> or fully appreciated the unique culture and history that I learned
> about.
>
> The point, which I can’t emphasize enough, is that *blindness by
> itself* doesn’t necessitate having a full-time guide or companion in a
> new place. Priscilla, you’re absolutely right to want to go without
> your mother, and any school officials who claim that you have to have
> a full-time companion are mistaken and should talk with members of the
> NFB. If you’re going on a school trip, which it sounds like you are,
> you can get the information you need from lectures by  asking
> questions and listening. You can hire other students in your group to
> read printed things to you if they’re absolutely essential, and you
> can go places with other people in the group, or if you’re feeling
> more adventurous, go out there and explore just like sighted travelers
> do.
>
> However, not everyone, blind or sighted, has the desire or the
> confidence to face the challenges of studying abroad on their own.
> Fortunately there’s other ways to build your blindness skills,
> confidence and problem-solving abilities without having to rely on
> sighted companionship. Priscilla, if you want to go abroad, and want
> to have the best experience possible and an experience like what your
> sighted friends are getting, but are worried about handling the
> challenges of getting around etc., then I’d urge you to spend some
> time at one of our NFB training centers before you decide to go, if
> you haven’t already been to one. At a center you will learn how to
> contend with unfamiliar areas and other challenges on a much smaller
> scale before you jump into Europe, and when you come out you will have
> the skills and the confidence to really jump in and get the most out
> of it, without having to be tethered to somebody else.
>
> Priscilla and all, I’d encourage you to look at our Website,
> www.nabslink.org
> for information about the training that’s available to blind students
> and the types of things that, as a well-trained blind student, you’ll
> be able to do effectively and on your own.
>
> Feel free to write me off-list if you have specific study-abroad questions.
>
> Arielle Silverman
>
>
> On 4/25/09, Haben Girma <habnkid at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a
> > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the
> > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World,
> > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually
> > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in
> > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced
> > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they
> > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the
> > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing
> > to help.
> >
> > Haben
> >
> > Serena wrote:
> >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me
> >> any differently just cuz I'm blind.  True, they were sometimes more
> >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me.  My friend who
> >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found
> >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't.  He simply thought that my
> >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz
> >> they were my friends or acquaintances.  This proved not to be the case.
> >>
> >> Serena
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise
> >>
> >>
> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the
> >>> average sighted American?  This is weird.  I know international
> >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the
> >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days.
> >>> Beth
> >>>
> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian.  I'm not sure
> that
> >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however,
> >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your
> >>>> acquaintances.  My
> >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great
> >>>> Adventure.  I
> >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but
> >>>> nobody
> >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being
> >>>> blind or,
> >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation!  I ended up asking a
> >>>> younger
> >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving
> >>>> him a
> >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him.
> >>>> I know
> >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's
> >>>> international,
> >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American.
> >>>>
> >>>> Serena
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a
> >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes
> >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children.  We're
> >>>>> not that.
> >>>>> Beth
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino <blind.subscriber at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the
> >>>>>> option
> >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My
> >>>>>> study
> >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to
> >>>>>> them, so to
> >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of
> >>>>>> a legal
> >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the
> >>>>>> education
> >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had
> a
> >>>>>> blast.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this
> >>>>>> will be a
> >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years
> >>>>>> under
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take
> >>>>>> responsibility.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability
> >>>>>> services
> >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is
> >>>>>> running
> >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover
> >>>>>> all my
> >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships.
> >>>>>> They
> >>>>>> can
> >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just some ideas.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mandarino
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> >>>>>> Behalf
> >>>>>> Of priscilla
> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM
> >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dear all listers,
> >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to
> >>>>>> studying
> >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out
> >>>>>> because
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances.
> >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go
> >>>>>> abroad
> >>>>>> with
> >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea  of going to Israel.
> >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands,
> >>>>>> Belgium,
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> Brussels.
> >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had
> >>>>>> concerns for
> >>>>>> me
> >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually
> >>>>>> travel with
> >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip
> >>>>>> because it
> >>>>>> never happened.
> >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I
> >>>>>> mentioned
> >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I
> >>>>>> need
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel.
> >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort.
> >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times
> >>>>>> because of
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social
> >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it
> >>>>>> does not
> >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school
> >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I
> >>>>>> explained to
> >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me,
> she
> >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships
> >>>>>> which
> >>>>>> was
> >>>>>> pretty sad.
> >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my
> >>>>>> situation and
> >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad
> >>>>>> because
> >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid
> >>>>>> to help
> >>>>>> me
> >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than
> >>>>>> I am.
> >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go
> >>>>>> because
> >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon.
> >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help
> >>>>>> can't
> >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to
> >>>>>> depend on
> >>>>>> mom
> >>>>>> as a last resort.
> >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another
> >>>>>> school
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences
> >>>>>> from work
> >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more.
> >>>>>> She called me up and told me  "I am not sure I I will be able to go
> >>>>>> because
> >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are
> >>>>>> willing
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will
> >>>>>> get moor
> >>>>>> information because I would like to go too."
> >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god
> 1000
> >>>>>> times
> >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly.
> >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to
> get
> >>>>>> used
> >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed
> >>>>>> to her
> >>>>>> being with me all the time.
> >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too
> >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the
> >>>>>> trip,
> >>>>>> but
> >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for
> >>>>>> support.
> >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to
> >>>>>> deposit the
> >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday
> unless
> >>>>>> they
> >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are
> >>>>>> signing
> >>>>>> up
> >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving
> other
> >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars.
> >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate
> >>>>>> it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you very much
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Good day,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Priscilla
> >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to
> >>>>>> learn how
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am
> >>>>>> excited to
> >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get
> >>>>>> tutoring
> >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for
> >>>>>> projects
> >>>>>> which I need help in.
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
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-- 
Lora