[nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
Robert Spangler
spangler.robert at gmail.com
Tue Feb 17 03:47:51 UTC 2009
Hello everyone,
I really appreciate that we are taking the time to discuss this topic
thoughtfully. It is a popular argument, especially since so many blind
people cannot read Braille due to losing sight later in life and not
having the time or motivation to learn it. Of course, these people
would be offended if they were called illiterate. It is my personal
opinion that every blind person should attempt at their fullest to learn
Braille. Ever since I was a child, I have utilized Braille for many
different tasks, including labeling, reading notes while presenting, and
identifying door signs. On the other hand, however, there are many
applications where it may be easier or more appropriate to use one's
auditory skills. For instance, we often don't have a choice if a
publication isn't available in Braille. I guess the best compromize is
to possess both skills--that is, the ability to capture information by
reading and listening--however, one is not literate if they cannot
read.. This is because of several reasons; the main one that comes to
mind is the ability to write clearly, cleanly, and denote paragraphs and
punctuation as earlier stated by Mr. Carter. These types of skills are
not attained simply by listening.
Mr. Guimaraes , I apologize but I do not understand where your mother
fits into the equasion. We are discussing literacy. Your mother, even
though she may not be fully proficient in English literacy, is still
literate in her native tongue. So, to my mind, she is literate and that
example is irrelevent.
Thanks for an intelligent discussion,
Robby
Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
> Hello Joseph,
>
> Thank you for your thoughtful, inteligent response. I understand your
> point about literacy being about reading and writing, annd not about
> ability to think. In our discussion, we should separate what it means to
> be inteligent from what it means to be literate. At least I think it
> might be useful in your context, even though I somehow think one
> reflects on the other.
>
> Let me present to you my mother. Mom is highly inteligent, yet not very
> educated. She is insucure about her english, and does not cultivate the
> habbit of reading. She has always been preoccupied either about raising
> a family, or in current times, keeping a home durring tough economic
> climate. She can read and write in portuguese, and somewhat more
> limmitedly in English. I would not call her illiterate, because she can
> read and write. Yet she gets by without newspapers, and even the
> internet to some extent. She does go on her Orcut page, like a Flicker
> or FaceBook for south-Americans, so she is confortable with new learning.
>
> If we define literacy as the ability to read and write, mom is both
> inteligent and literate. Take it with a grain of salt, she is my mom
> after all, so I better follow one of the commandments, and honor mother
> and father.
>
> If you get more sofisticated, you may accept the UNESCO deffinition:
>
> "'Literacy' is the ability to identify, understand, interpret, create,
> communicate, compute and use printed and written materials associated
> with varying contexts. Literacy involves a continuum of learning to
> enable an individual to achieve his or her goals, to develop his or her
> knowledge and potential, and to participate fully in the wider society."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy
>
> this deffinition calls for personal growth, and participation in
> society. One should use his or her ability to write as a vehicle for
> achieving one's goals, developing one's knowledge and potential, and
> participating in one's society. Sounds empowering, and progress-bound.
> Don't just know how to read, but use reading to improve your position
> and standing in your social circles.
>
> In another way, this definition of literacy goes beyond the basics, even
> to suggest that you be able and confortable with statistics, perhaps.
>
> "ability to identify, understand, interpret, create, communicate,
> compute and use printed and written materials associated with varying
> contexts."
>
> Compute, it said. So, I guess I could say I was literate enough to
> realize that the National Library Services for the Blind was publishing
> way too many books on magic tricks. More than I care to read, or even
> care to know so much of their resources would be going to such fruitless
> publications.
>
> I think compute information could be refering to some level of
> mathematical computations as a demonstration of literacy. Fare enough.
>
> This definition, and I like this definition a lot, calls you to
>
> 1. identify
>
> Find, procure, locate, get your hand on relevant material for your
> subject. Identifying is part of research.
>
> 2. understand,
>
> One must be able to comprehend. This requires a knowledge of the
> vocabulary, and command of the language. If you can't handle
> Shakespeare, or Hawthorn, then you aught to do some work, start from
> easier readings before you tackle such writers.
>
> 3. interpret,
>
> This comes after understanding, and undeniably requires some level of
> inteligence. Most people have inteligence, and that sets humans apart
> from other animals.
>
> To interpret is to make inferences from your reading. It's reading
> between the lines, and having knowledge of the author's intent.
>
> Because literacy requires interpreting, and interpreting requires
> inteligence, then literacy requires inteligence.
>
> 4. Create
>
> It's fine to read and write, but to simply be able to write, and not do
> it is not an accurate demonstration of literacy. Also, the Definition
> does not call for being able to write well, just well enough for your
> social context. One need not be able to tell a story, unless she or he
> is a journalist, or biographer, or the holder of a job where you need to
> be an attention-grabbing story-teller.
>
> 5. communicate,.
>
> this is the one that I think calls for more excelency. You must be able
> to communicate, or convey a message. Did I spell convey correctly? If
> not, had you noticed it before? If it is a misspelling, and I had doubts
> about it, you think I would consult a dictionary about it if these were
> an actual manuscript or professional document? You bet I would! this is
> no excuse for filling the list with incomprehenssive blabberings on,
> which I hope I don't do too much of.
>
> I think communicating is the first call for one's ability to make a
> difference. If you want to be well-respected, and considered as someone
> who gets it, and writes effectively, you better be a good communicator.
> There are entire college courses and majors on this topic, so I won't
> pretend I know the first thing about it.
>
> 6. compute and use printed and written materials associated with varying
> contexts.
>
> The language about varying contexts calls for broadness of mind. So read
> all the NLS books about magic and card tricks, and you will likely not
> be fulfilling this requirement. Completely ignore the cart tricks books,
> and any other book on fun performance-related subjects, and you could
> not be fulfilling this requirement once again. Whatever else this might
> mean, it does call for one to read widely.
>
> So whatever literacy means will depend on the definition of another
> word: reading.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter"
> <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
>
>
>> Antonio,
>>
>> I would argue that being literate and being informed are two distinct
>> and separate things. I know many people who are literate and yet
>> blissfully unaware of a great many things.
>>
>> Contrarily, I know a few people who seem to be pretty well informed,
>> and yet I would question their literacy. You've encountered some of
>> them on these NFB lists, actually--but I know others who are sighted
>> whose literacy I also question.
>>
>> Literacy to my mind connotes both the ability to read and the ability
>> to write. While it is true that reading can take many forms, those
>> forms of reading that involve the spoken word do not generally assist
>> in writing.
>>
>> Consider, how many very intelligent people on these lists use
>> spellings indicative of working almost entirely with speech rather
>> than access to the written word in a way that includes some form of
>> letter-sound correspondence. Or for that matter, how many posters to
>> these lists write their messages as single long paragraphs? These
>> types of errors negatively impact what others' think of them,
>> particularly if those others do not use a screen reader to access
>> their world.
>>
>> Some of the people I'm thinking of are undeniably brilliant, so that
>> is truly a shame. The sighted world judges by appearance. If we are
>> going to compete on equal terms in the sighted world in any way that
>> includes written communication, we must learn to write in a way that
>> is meant to be read with the eye, rather than heard with the ear.
>>
>> This to me is why literacy is more than just reading and the ability
>> to hear and understand an audio book or access the contents of a
>> website through a screen reader is simply not enough.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 06:32:56PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am a braille reader, though not a very fast one. I'd like to throw
>>> some thought in about reading and literacy.
>>>
>>> First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is
>>> getting reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter
>>> the method?
>>>
>>> I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>>> First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the
>>> discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books,
>>> articles, magazines, journals, and any other form where words are
>>> conveyed.
>>>
>>> By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an
>>> text to speech.
>>> I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for
>>> literacy, but not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not
>>> learn to spell properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect
>>> spelling is not indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.
>>> I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best
>>> speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing.
>>> Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though
>>> she or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable
>>> communicator.
>>>
>>> I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs
>>> messages in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two
>>> hours, and without braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get
>>> at these mailings, and with my braille reading speed, I would only be
>>> able to read a small fraction of the material.
>>>
>>> A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world
>>> than the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the
>>> literate person is by some measures a more interesting person because
>>> she or he is better informed, and can discuss with some authority
>>> about a wider array of topics. To this effect, I have set out a
>>> reading list with books on topics of interest to me. I limmited
>>> myself to learning about one topic for a month, then moving on to
>>> something else.
>>>
>>> So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we
>>> tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the
>>> time to read about religion, and so fourth.
>>>
>>> I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as
>>> much time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the
>>> only way to being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil,
>>> or in spoken media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing
>>> good literacy skills.
>>>
>>> Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do
>>> you see that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by
>>> reading an electronic file with my text to speech features?
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy
>>> promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>>>
>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org,
>>> America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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--
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - Recording Secretary
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