[nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
Ashley Bramlett
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Thu Jun 25 00:02:55 UTC 2009
Janice,
While the guide dog school will back you up, you are fighting a battle you
may not have to. Why not just go to find another apartment whose company is
responsive and open minded? Teal stated they did not return phone calls.
If that were me I would not wish to wait around for them to respond.
If that is the only apartment complex you can rent because its accessible to
transportation, you are stuck.
Then go forward with it with information about the law and the guide dog
school backing you. Hopefully with some education to the company they will
change their minds.
As consumers we often have options and can buy from places that meet our
needs. For instance some stores have been better about helping me when I
request customer service at the counter. I'm going to those stores who are
more customer friendly. Some restaurants are more accomodating than others
about reading the menu, counting change when its brought back, etc. So I'm
going to go to those places.
Yes I can educate and maybe get demanding and confrontational at these
services but I pick my battles. I'd rather be at a store, restaurant,
apartment complex etc that is open minded and willing to make some
accomodations so I can equally enjoy their services. In my opinion fighting
an apartment complex about a dog issue or other reason is not a battle I'd
fight. I'd rather just go rent a different apartment if at all possible!
Hope this makes sense. I feel there's a time to combat predjudice and
discrimination and a time to avoid it.
Ashley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janice" <snowball07 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
Hello Teal,
Like I said earlier, I think in this situation, you should just ask for
forgiveness- rather than permission. Although, it is silly to have to deal
with either, but I guess that only exists in a perfect world... sigh. LOL.
You don't need to tell them. I would just withhold that information until it
is necessary. Then at that point, you will have all the skills and knowledge
that you would need to talk to the leasing office, or whomever about it. Not
to mention, you will have your school backing you up, etc...
hope that is kind of useful!
Kindest Regards,
Janice
----- Original Message -----
From: "Teal Bloodworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
what about a snake for seizures? there is an animal for just about
everything now and you really wouldnt think about them helping. A friend
told me that i didnt necessarily have to tell them even about the guide dog
but i am not sure.
-Teal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
I agree with Janice. No pet fees, no deposits, nothing should be
forced on you because the guide dog is not a pet. It's the same thing
if you needed a wheelchair and you were also paralyzed and had one of
them little monkeys.
Beth
On 6/24/09, Janice <snowball07 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Teal,
>
> You are not allowed to be asked to pay a pet fee, a pet deposit, pet rent,
> or anything else that is related to such. This is because your dog is not
> a
> pet. it is and will be a mobility aid. When I went to TSE- The Seeing Eye,
> I
> was provided little cards with the ADA and dog guide accessibility rights
> on
> it. I am sure that once you know exactly what your school preferred mode
> of
> action in these cases is, it will be easier to deal with. Might I suggest
> that you just do not mention the dog for now. Then when you come back with
> him/ her deal with it then. I have lived in dorm rooms with my Seeing Eye
> dog, various apartments and houses, etc... and not really had too much of
> an
> issue. You know it is within your right by the law to have the dog, even
> in
> areas where dogs are quote "not allowed", because they are not a pet. So,
> I
> would say ask for forgiveness and not for permission... even though you
> shouldn't have to ask for either.
> Cheers,
>
> Janice
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dezman Jackson" <jackson.dezman at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>
>
> Actually, I don't think you would even have to pay a pet fee.
>
> Dezman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jess" <jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>
>
>> Teal,
>> They are not allowed to discriminate against you especially when you have
>> the guide dog. You may have to pay a pet deposit on an apartment once you
>> get a guide dog but that is it. It's also illegal for them to
>> discriminate
>>
>> against you because you have a disability. My fiancée and I have been
>> living in New York State since 2004. We lived in Cheektowaga New York
>> which is 15 minutes outside of Buffalo from August of 2004 to December of
>> 2005. Then moved to Watervliet New York which is fifteen minutes outside
>> of Albany New York from December of 2005 to present. Does your boyfriend
>> work or anything? The apartment complexes would have to accept you with
>> your guide dog since about 90% of the time he or she is working and just
>> not a pet. If neither one of you is working you could file for section 8
>> housing .
>> Jessica
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Teal Blooworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>
>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> Actually I have found myself and others discussing this particular
>>> topic.
>>>
>>> Stacey, Tim and I a couple weeks ago in Louisville ventured out on many
>>> occasions to highland coffee and then later 4th st live and actually
>>> everybody wanted to just take us there opposed to simply telling us left
>>> or right or just directions when needed. People would "help" us off the
>>> bus or to the bus stop rather than let us try it ourselves but after
>>> some
>>>
>>> of them talked to us they realized we were people too and werent afraid
>>> to talk to us any longer.
>>>
>>> In owensboro where i go to school though it is a different situation.
>>> Teachers treat you differently in class and with me being the only blind
>>> person on campus i was alienated. On one occasion the social psychology
>>> class was doing a project "braking the social norms" and i actually had
>>> a
>>>
>>> student ask me to borrow my cane for this project. In shock, I let the
>>> girl borrow my spare cane just to find out that they went into target
>>> and
>>>
>>> knocked stuff off of the shelves. This is a stereotype and us as blind
>>> people cannot do that and really may be treated differently and
>>> stereotipically but still have to follow the same set of rules. Yes we
>>> have some accomodations, and yes we do have to work alittle harder to
>>> follow our dreams but still we are people.
>>>
>>> One thing i have found is that some people really are curious and do ask
>>> questions and personally i feel this is a good thing because they are
>>> curious and if they know hoew to help you then there is a chance they
>>> will. My boyfriend is also fine with the blindness and has really been a
>>> big help but he still worries about me doing things alone which is
>>> understandable. As for discrimination last week me and him were looking
>>> at apartments and the people gave us the run around and i think this was
>>> because i am blind. Also these apartments were not pet friendly and
>>> friday i found out i was accepted to guiding eyes in new york for the
>>> june 29th slot and they completely turned us down when i told them.
>>> discrimination is out there but is it really worht all the fuss?
>>>
>>> -Teal
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> According to social psychologists, prejudice is defined as an
>>>> emotional reaction (usually negative, but can be positive) to members
>>>> of a particular group. In common usage prejudice is often confused
>>>> with stereotyping and discrimination. The three are related, but
>>>> prejudice is the emotional component, while stereotyping is the
>>>> attitude/cognition component and discrimination is the behavioral
>>>> component. In the case of blindness, prejudice might be someone's
>>>> reluctance to talk to us (fear or disgust), fear of becoming blind or
>>>> anxiety about our safety. Stereotypes might include "blind people are
>>>> slow/incompetent/dirty/can't do X job" or "blind people are all good
>>>> at music". Discrimination would be actions like not teaching us to
>>>> read, not letting us sit where we want on an airplane or giving us
>>>> preferential treatment like less homework or discounted bus fare. What
>>>> the three all have in common is that, even though technically they
>>>> can all be either positive or negative, they arise from our group
>>>> membership and lead to us all being treated or thought of as the same
>>>> because of what group we belong to (i.e. blind people) rather than
>>>> our individual strengths and weaknesses.
>>>>
>>>> My argument before was that the emotional component (prejudice) is
>>>> what underlies a lot of the persistent and hostile discrimination we
>>>> get (no matter how many times you show someone how you do a job, they
>>>> still don't think you can do it safely/won't let you try) as well as
>>>> a lot of deficiencies in the services and education we get (people
>>>> feel an emotional aversion twoard blindness, and so are less willing
>>>> to give us Braille/canes/let us have independent life experiences).
>>>>
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 6/17/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we define prejudice? I know the meaning of the word but perhaps a
>>>>> clearer definition or an example as it relates to blindness would
>>>>> help. I'm just afraid this will turn into a sighted people bashing
>>>>> event; I've seen it before (not on this list) but it's a slippery
>>>>> slope.
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoting Antonio Guimaraes <aguimaraes at nbp.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We sometimes seam to do things to prove a point. I would rather take
>>>>>> part in some activity because I enjoy it, and want to get something
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> of it than I have to prove to sighted people that I can dance, walk,
>>>>>> swim, speak, read, sing, breathe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some days we tolerate ignorance better than others, but we should not
>>>>>> tolerate discrimination at any time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When have you been discriminated against, and what steps did you take
>>>>>> to resolve the situation? What steps should you have taken instead,
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> do you think your actions were appropriate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami"
>>>>>> <marrie12 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:21 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmm this sounds like a seminar topic we once might have had at the
>>>>>>> LCB.
>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> ben lucky so far. My dance teacher is making me, for the first fiew
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> I can get my barengs use my cane while doing the steps, and mainly
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> get my ballence issues sorted out, but there will come a time, and
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> already has where I am out there on my own with theother students
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> have to perform this stuff in less then a month. Will I have my cane
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> dance with, no, but I feel confident enough to know the ruteen and
>>>>>>> bee
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the exact pisition I'm supposed to be in. Now the person who is
>>>>>>> helping
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> just needs to tell me the steps and when to move and whair but like
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> bnefore there will come a time when even that will probably not
>>>>>>> happen in
>>>>>>> performance day. Am I afraid, Yes. However, I know that if I know
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> steps
>>>>>>> and get my barengs, I will be able ot show the sighted audience that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> dance even though I have no site. There is a lot of truth in what
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>> and I believe that by showing the sighted people, in my case that I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> dance, maybe not well, but I can dance, sing, and act, this will
>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> eyes, and many doors for me, and other blind people in the future. I
>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>> what I said makes sence. Sorry I rambled it is way too early in the
>>>>>>> morning.
>>>>>>> Hehaha!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh just in case anyone is interested in the dance class and what we
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> google "life long dreams" in Nevada.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM
>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recently we've been talking about airline discrimination, which has
>>>>>>> historically served as a good representation of the kind of
>>>>>>> second-class
>>>>>>> treatment that we often get in everyday interactions with members of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> public. I think Jedi made some good points in describing the
>>>>>>> tendency
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> some sighted people to judge us as incompetent based on the role of
>>>>>>> sight
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> their own lives and their assumption that losing their sight would
>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>> them incapacitated. It is true that we are a tiny minority (even
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>>> community) and that a lot of sighted people simply don't know how we
>>>>>>> perform
>>>>>>> everyday tasks. In some cases this ignorance leads to discriminatory
>>>>>>> treatment ("The blind person can't sit in the exit
>>>>>>> row") or stereotypes ("Blind people are slow").
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I've always found fascinating, though, is that lack of
>>>>>>> knowledge-ignorance-doesn't always translate into discrimination. In
>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>> many sighted people are simply curious, and if we tell or show them
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> use the computer, read or travel, they quickly accept our
>>>>>>> alternative
>>>>>>> techniques and treat us just the same as everyone else.
>>>>>>> But this doesn't happen all the time. And then, on the flip side,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> those who know all the facts about blindness and still "don't get
>>>>>>> it".
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> includes, for instance, the mobility instructor who's taught O&M
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> thirty
>>>>>>> years but who still insists that you should walk three blocks out of
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> way rather than cross a busy intersection. Many of us find that our
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> parents make more of a big deal out of our blindness than do people
>>>>>>> we've
>>>>>>> just met, even if our parents have met competent blind people or
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> blindness workshops, know Braille, etc. So there definitely is a
>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>> between ignorance and prejudice. The combination of both is bad, but
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> easily have one without the other. And it's prejudice, not
>>>>>>> ignorance,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> actually causes us trouble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, while we can easily remedy ignorance with simple
>>>>>>> education,
>>>>>>> alleviating prejudice isn't that simple. It seems like much of the
>>>>>>> persistence of people's prejudices comes from their emotional or
>>>>>>> "gut"
>>>>>>> reactions to blindness. The experienced teacher of blind students
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> all the facts about Braille, including the fact that children who
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> Braille while young can read just as fast as sighted children. And
>>>>>>> yet,
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> some gut level the teacher feels an aversion to Braille, seeing it
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> stigma or a symbol of weakness. So no matter how well this teacher
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> trained, if she gets a kid in her caseload who has partial sight,
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to be a struggle for the teacher to actively teach the child
>>>>>>> Braille.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> parent who finds his child's blindness frightening, likewise, is
>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>> have a hard time letting the child play outside or do chores, no
>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> much he reads about what is best for blind children, unless he
>>>>>>> figures
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> how to let go of his fear. I think so much of the success of our
>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>> centers comes from their ability to not only teach us practical
>>>>>>> skills,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> also help us overcome our own fears and negative feelings about
>>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yet, as Monica has demonstrated, there are those sighted people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> display a lack of prejudice and who automatically include us and
>>>>>>> treat us
>>>>>>> normally without any prior knowledge about blindness or education on
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> parts. We all know sighted people like this, even though we often
>>>>>>> tend to
>>>>>>> spend most of our mental energy grumbling about the sighted people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> treat
>>>>>>> us strangely. My boyfriend never met a single blind person before
>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> yet in some ways seems to instinctively "get it" more than my
>>>>>>> mother,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> example, who besides raising me for twenty-four years, also read
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> leading books about raising a blind child. (Never mind that many of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> messages espoused in those books are rooted in prejudices of their
>>>>>>> own).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So what do you guys think makes the difference between those
>>>>>>> members of the sighted public who show prejudice and those who
>>>>>>> don't?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> something about their personalities or experiences? And if simple
>>>>>>> educating
>>>>>>> isn't enough to address people's deep-seated emotional reactions,
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> we do about it? Do we have any control over whether the sighted guy
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> street grabs us or treats us with respect? It's easy enough for us
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>> who will be responsive to education about blindness and who won't.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> those who aren't responsive, how do we deal with them civilly while
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> protecting our rights and our freedom? And how do we deal with
>>>>>>> educators
>>>>>>> like O&M instructors, who have power over what we learn or what
>>>>>>> accommodations we get but whose judgments are affected by their
>>>>>>> misconceptions about blindness?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I look forward to a lively discussion on this topic, as it's central
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> we act as an organization and how we can really change what it means
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> blind for ourselves and for others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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