[nabs-l] Discrimination Vs ignorance

priscilla Priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com
Thu Jun 25 18:07:02 UTC 2009


Hello all,
Im so excited towards going to convention on july 2nd and look forwards
towards meeting new people and making new friendships.
Anyway, I think that ignorance is one of the worst diseases rather than any
other medical condition that can threaten your life.
I think that ignorance is the worse disease because when people are very
ignorant, they often become completely blind about the fact that everyone
else is different in many ways.
For example, people often treat aids patients like they are worth nothing to
nobody. This goes towards anyone else who is different in other ways.
I can relate to this because of personal experiences that made me realize
that there are some people who are so ignorant that they are emotionally
blind.
I had a math teacher in the eighth grade who did not think that I was going
to pass my math class because she thought I was slow and incompetent.
She thought t this way because no mater how hard she try to explain things
in regards to math class, I wouldn't get it.
Why I wouldn't get the concept? Well because the way she explained things
made no sense because she never described what she was doing on the board
and never showed me what to do step by step whenever I needed help after
school for homework.
Then, she did not give me a chance to write out my homework in my own words
because she didn't realize I could use my own ideas  and that because I was
slow, she had to spoonfeed my brain by making me write out the problem in
words that were different than what I would write so I can comprehend.
I was only 13 then, so I told mom about the situation and she then told the
principle.
Her ignorance blinded her because she never saw beyond her own nose and did
not realize the capabilities I had.
Another experience was during my senior year of high school when I took
computer classes with a teacher who didn't think I could work with certain
programs because again  the same thing.
>From the years in college, I haven't been discriminated because of this
since many of the people whom I meet are willing to learn more about what I
can do.
Anyway, I wanted to study abroad and some of the professors were concerned
because of the safety isues surrounding the experience.
This summer I wanted to study abroad in Europe for one of my electives for
international relations, and one of the professors said that Europe is not
really a good place to go because of my first experience and that he is
concerned about my comfort level.
I will admit that I never traveled alone since I never had a chance to
wander off mostly because everyone including myself is busy with work and
school.
+ my dad especially is to afraid to let me go to a foreign country alone.
But, I will fly to the convention for the first time with my parents which I
am very excited since I feel weird going next to mom on the airplane while
all my friends hand out with each other during the flight.
This is even weird if I had to travel to Europ for a school trip with mom
while all the other college kids are doing there own things besids me
because for some reason, I feel kind of restricted.
I feel this way because I have a preference of hanging out with friends who
are my age.
I also feel free without my parents because of the independence.
Its not the same to joke around with a group of young people about planning
to do pranks at a dorm  than joke about it with the same group of people
next to an older adult.
The older adults tend to become irritated by them then we are, especially
mom.
This is only a scenario that I did just to see the difference between having
an older adult such as a parent coming along with a bunch of young people on
a college sponsored trip.
I think that discrimination is mostly based on the actions done to a person
who is different while the stereotype is based on an attitude which I
completely agree with one of the posts.
I hope to see you all at convention.

Thank you very much

Priscilla



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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Ignorance vs. Prejudice (Beth)
   2. Can I listen to some conventin events on line? (V Nork)
   3. Re: Ignorance vs. Prejudice (Teal Bloodworth)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:51:03 -0400
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID:
	<4383d01d0906240851gcade24bg7048fd02f43a8ed3 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I agree with Janice.  No pet fees, no deposits, nothing should be
forced on you because the guide dog is not a pet.  It's the same thing
if you needed a wheelchair and you were also paralyzed and had one of
them little monkeys.
Beth

On 6/24/09, Janice <snowball07 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Teal,
>
> You are not allowed to be asked to pay a pet fee, a pet deposit, pet rent,
> or anything else that is related to such. This is because your dog is not
a
> pet. it is and will be a mobility aid. When I went to TSE- The Seeing Eye,
I
> was provided little cards with the ADA and dog guide accessibility rights
on
> it. I am sure that once you know exactly what your school preferred mode
of
> action in these cases is, it will be easier to deal with. Might I suggest
> that you just do not mention the dog for now. Then when you come back with
> him/ her deal with it then. I have lived in dorm rooms with my Seeing Eye
> dog, various apartments and houses, etc... and not really had too much of
an
> issue. You know it is within your right by the law to have the dog, even
in
> areas where dogs are quote "not allowed", because they are not a pet. So,
I
> would say ask for forgiveness and not for permission... even though you
> shouldn't have to ask for either.
> Cheers,
>
> Janice
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dezman Jackson" <jackson.dezman at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>
>
> Actually, I don't think you would even have to pay a pet fee.
>
> Dezman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jess" <jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>
>
>> Teal,
>> They are not allowed to discriminate against you especially when you have
>> the guide dog. You may have to pay a pet deposit on an apartment once you
>> get a guide dog but that is it. It's also illegal for them to
discriminate
>>
>> against you because you have a disability. My fianc?e and I have been
>> living in New York State since 2004. We lived in Cheektowaga New York
>> which is 15 minutes outside of Buffalo from August of 2004 to December of
>> 2005. Then moved to Watervliet New York which is fifteen minutes outside
>> of Albany New York from December of 2005 to present. Does your boyfriend
>> work or anything? The apartment complexes would have to accept you with
>> your guide dog since about 90% of the time he or she is working and just
>> not a pet.  If neither one of you is working you could file for section 8
>> housing .
>> Jessica
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Teal Blooworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>
>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> Actually I have found myself and others discussing this particular
topic.
>>>
>>> Stacey, Tim and I a couple weeks ago in Louisville ventured out on many
>>> occasions to highland coffee and then later 4th st live and actually
>>> everybody wanted to just take us there opposed to simply telling us left
>>> or right or just directions when needed. People would "help" us off the
>>> bus or to the bus stop rather than let us try it ourselves but after
some
>>>
>>> of them talked to us they realized we were people too and werent afraid
>>> to talk to us any longer.
>>>
>>> In owensboro where i go to school though it is a different situation.
>>> Teachers treat you differently in class and with me being the only blind
>>> person on campus i was alienated. On one occasion the social psychology
>>> class was doing a project "braking the social norms" and i actually had
a
>>>
>>> student ask me to borrow my cane for this project. In shock, I let the
>>> girl borrow my spare cane just to find out that they went into target
and
>>>
>>> knocked stuff off of the shelves. This is a stereotype and us as blind
>>> people cannot do that and really may be treated differently and
>>> stereotipically but still have to follow the same set of rules. Yes we
>>> have some accomodations, and yes we do have to work alittle harder to
>>> follow our dreams but still we are people.
>>>
>>> One thing i have found is that some people really are curious and do ask
>>> questions and personally i feel this is a good thing because they are
>>> curious and if they know hoew to help you then there is a chance they
>>> will. My boyfriend is also fine with the blindness and has really been a
>>> big help but he still worries about me doing things alone which is
>>> understandable. As for discrimination last week me and him were looking
>>> at apartments and the people gave us the run around and i think this was
>>> because i am blind. Also these apartments were not pet friendly and
>>> friday i found out i was accepted to guiding eyes in new york for the
>>> june 29th slot and they completely turned us down when i told them.
>>> discrimination is out there but is it really worht all the fuss?
>>>
>>> -Teal
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> According to social psychologists, prejudice is defined as an
>>>> emotional reaction (usually negative, but can be positive) to members
>>>> of a particular group. In common usage prejudice is often confused
>>>> with stereotyping and discrimination. The three are related, but
>>>> prejudice is the emotional component, while stereotyping is the
>>>> attitude/cognition component and discrimination  is the behavioral
>>>> component. In the case of blindness, prejudice might be someone's
>>>> reluctance to talk to us (fear or disgust), fear of  becoming blind or
>>>> anxiety about our safety. Stereotypes might include "blind people are
>>>> slow/incompetent/dirty/can't do X job" or "blind people are all good
>>>> at music". Discrimination would be actions like not teaching us to
>>>> read, not letting us sit where we  want on an airplane or giving us
>>>> preferential treatment like less homework or discounted bus fare. What
>>>> the three all have  in common  is  that, even though technically they
>>>> can all be either positive or negative, they arise from our group
>>>> membership and lead to us all being treated or thought of as the same
>>>> because of what group we belong to (i.e. blind  people) rather than
>>>> our individual strengths and weaknesses.
>>>>
>>>> My argument before was that the emotional component (prejudice) is
>>>> what underlies a lot of the persistent and hostile discrimination we
>>>> get (no matter how many times you show someone how you do a job, they
>>>> still don't think you can do it safely/won't let you try)  as well  as
>>>> a lot of deficiencies in the services and education we  get (people
>>>> feel an emotional aversion twoard blindness, and so are less willing
>>>> to give us Braille/canes/let us have independent life experiences).
>>>>
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 6/17/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we define prejudice? I know the meaning of the word but perhaps a
>>>>> clearer definition or an example as it relates to blindness would
>>>>> help. I'm just afraid this will turn into a sighted people bashing
>>>>> event; I've seen it before (not on this list) but it's a slippery
>>>>> slope.
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoting Antonio Guimaraes <aguimaraes at nbp.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We sometimes seam to do things to prove a point. I would rather take
>>>>>> part in some activity because I enjoy it, and want to get something
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> of it than I have to prove to sighted people that I can dance, walk,
>>>>>> swim, speak, read, sing, breathe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some days we tolerate ignorance better than others, but we should not
>>>>>> tolerate discrimination at any time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When have you been discriminated against, and what steps did you take
>>>>>> to resolve the situation? What steps should you have taken instead,
or
>>>>>> do you think your actions were appropriate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami"
>>>>>> <marrie12 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:21 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmm this sounds like a seminar topic we once might have had at the
>>>>>>> LCB.
>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> ben lucky so far. My dance teacher is making me, for the first fiew
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> I can get my barengs use my cane while doing the steps, and mainly
so
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> get my ballence issues sorted out, but there will come a time, and
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> already has where I am out there on my own with theother students
and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> have to perform this stuff in less then a month. Will I have my cane
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> dance with, no, but I feel confident enough  to know the ruteen and
>>>>>>> bee
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the exact pisition I'm supposed to be in. Now the person who is
>>>>>>> helping
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> just needs to tell me the steps and when to move and whair but like
I
>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> bnefore there will come a time when even that will probably not
>>>>>>> happen in
>>>>>>> performance day. Am I afraid, Yes. However, I know that if I know
the
>>>>>>> steps
>>>>>>> and get my barengs, I will be able ot show the sighted audience that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> dance even though I have no site. There is a lot of truth in what
you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>> and I believe that by showing the sighted people, in my case that I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> dance, maybe not well, but I can dance, sing, and act, this will
open
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> eyes, and many doors for me, and other blind people in the future. I
>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>> what I said makes sence. Sorry I rambled it is way too early in the
>>>>>>> morning.
>>>>>>> Hehaha!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh just in case anyone is interested in the dance class and what we
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> google "life long dreams" in Nevada.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM
>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recently we've been talking about airline discrimination, which has
>>>>>>> historically served as a good representation of the kind of
>>>>>>> second-class
>>>>>>> treatment that we often get in everyday interactions with members of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> public. I think Jedi made some good points in describing the
tendency
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> some sighted people to judge us as incompetent based on the role of
>>>>>>> sight
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> their own lives and their assumption that losing their sight would
>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>> them incapacitated. It is true that we are a tiny minority (even
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>>> community) and that a lot of sighted people simply don't know how we
>>>>>>> perform
>>>>>>> everyday tasks. In some cases this ignorance leads to discriminatory
>>>>>>> treatment ("The blind person can't sit in the exit
>>>>>>> row") or stereotypes ("Blind people are slow").
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I've always found fascinating, though, is that lack of
>>>>>>> knowledge-ignorance-doesn't always translate into discrimination. In
>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>> many sighted people are simply curious, and if we tell or show them
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> use the computer, read or travel, they quickly accept our
alternative
>>>>>>> techniques and treat us just the same as everyone else.
>>>>>>> But this doesn't happen all  the time. And then, on the flip side,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> those who know all the facts about blindness and still "don't get
>>>>>>> it".
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> includes, for  instance, the mobility instructor who's taught O&M
for
>>>>>>> thirty
>>>>>>> years but who still insists that you should walk three blocks out of
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> way rather than cross a busy intersection. Many of us find that our
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> parents make more of a big deal out of our blindness than do people
>>>>>>> we've
>>>>>>> just met, even if our parents have met competent blind people or
been
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> blindness workshops, know Braille, etc. So there definitely is a
>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>> between ignorance and prejudice. The combination of both is bad, but
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> easily have one without the other. And it's prejudice, not
ignorance,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> actually causes us trouble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, while we can easily remedy ignorance with simple
>>>>>>> education,
>>>>>>> alleviating prejudice isn't that simple. It seems like much of the
>>>>>>> persistence of people's prejudices comes from their emotional or
>>>>>>> "gut"
>>>>>>> reactions to blindness. The experienced teacher of blind students
may
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> all the facts about Braille, including the fact that children who
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> Braille while young can read just as fast as sighted children. And
>>>>>>> yet,
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> some gut level the teacher feels an aversion to Braille, seeing it
as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> stigma or a symbol of weakness. So no matter how well this teacher
is
>>>>>>> trained, if she gets a kid in her caseload who has partial sight,
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to be  a struggle for the teacher to actively teach the child
>>>>>>> Braille.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> parent who finds his child's blindness frightening, likewise, is
>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>> have a hard time letting the child play outside or do chores, no
>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> much he reads about what is best for blind children, unless he
>>>>>>> figures
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> how to let go of  his fear. I think so much of the success of our
>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>> centers comes from their ability to not only teach us practical
>>>>>>> skills,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> also help us  overcome our own fears and negative feelings about
>>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yet, as Monica has demonstrated, there  are those sighted people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> display a lack of prejudice and who automatically include us and
>>>>>>> treat us
>>>>>>> normally without any prior knowledge about blindness or education on
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> parts. We all know sighted people like this, even though we often
>>>>>>> tend to
>>>>>>> spend most of our mental energy grumbling about the sighted people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> treat
>>>>>>> us strangely. My boyfriend never met a single blind person before
me,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> yet in some ways seems to instinctively "get it" more than my
mother,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> example, who besides raising me for twenty-four years, also read
many
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> leading  books about raising a blind child. (Never mind that many of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> messages espoused in those books are rooted in prejudices of their
>>>>>>> own).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So  what do you guys think makes the difference between those
>>>>>>> members of the sighted public who show prejudice and those who
don't?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> something about their personalities or experiences? And if simple
>>>>>>> educating
>>>>>>> isn't enough to address people's deep-seated emotional reactions,
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> we do about it? Do we have any control over whether the sighted guy
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> street grabs us or treats us with respect? It's easy enough for us
to
>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>> who will be responsive to education about blindness and who won't.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> those who aren't responsive, how do we deal with them civilly while
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> protecting our rights and our freedom? And how do we deal with
>>>>>>> educators
>>>>>>> like O&M instructors, who have power over what we learn or what
>>>>>>> accommodations we get but whose judgments are affected by their
>>>>>>> misconceptions about blindness?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I look forward to a lively discussion on this topic, as it's central
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> we act as an organization and how we can really change what it means
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> blind for ourselves and for others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:55:24 -0700
From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [nabs-l] Can I listen to some conventin events on line?
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <E2E7026DC77544FC868F463945D4D7AA at windows4c0ed96>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi All, I would have loved to attend the NFB convention, alas it was not
possible for me this year.  Just writing to ask if some of the workshops or
speeches can be heard somehow on line, as in live streaming or other audio
feeds?  Thanks,  ginnie

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:26:13 -0500
From: "Teal Bloodworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <0BFDE4B861AC4D5394434278C523F743 at teal6e6857f643>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

what about a snake for seizures? there is an animal for just about 
everything now and you really wouldnt think about them helping. A friend 
told me that i didnt necessarily have to tell them even about the guide dog 
but i am not sure.

-Teal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice


I agree with Janice.  No pet fees, no deposits, nothing should be
forced on you because the guide dog is not a pet.  It's the same thing
if you needed a wheelchair and you were also paralyzed and had one of
them little monkeys.
Beth

On 6/24/09, Janice <snowball07 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Teal,
>
> You are not allowed to be asked to pay a pet fee, a pet deposit, pet rent,
> or anything else that is related to such. This is because your dog is not 
> a
> pet. it is and will be a mobility aid. When I went to TSE- The Seeing Eye,

> I
> was provided little cards with the ADA and dog guide accessibility rights 
> on
> it. I am sure that once you know exactly what your school preferred mode 
> of
> action in these cases is, it will be easier to deal with. Might I suggest
> that you just do not mention the dog for now. Then when you come back with
> him/ her deal with it then. I have lived in dorm rooms with my Seeing Eye
> dog, various apartments and houses, etc... and not really had too much of 
> an
> issue. You know it is within your right by the law to have the dog, even 
> in
> areas where dogs are quote "not allowed", because they are not a pet. So, 
> I
> would say ask for forgiveness and not for permission... even though you
> shouldn't have to ask for either.
> Cheers,
>
> Janice
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dezman Jackson" <jackson.dezman at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>
>
> Actually, I don't think you would even have to pay a pet fee.
>
> Dezman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jess" <jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>
>
>> Teal,
>> They are not allowed to discriminate against you especially when you have
>> the guide dog. You may have to pay a pet deposit on an apartment once you
>> get a guide dog but that is it. It's also illegal for them to 
>> discriminate
>>
>> against you because you have a disability. My fianc?e and I have been
>> living in New York State since 2004. We lived in Cheektowaga New York
>> which is 15 minutes outside of Buffalo from August of 2004 to December of
>> 2005. Then moved to Watervliet New York which is fifteen minutes outside
>> of Albany New York from December of 2005 to present. Does your boyfriend
>> work or anything? The apartment complexes would have to accept you with
>> your guide dog since about 90% of the time he or she is working and just
>> not a pet.  If neither one of you is working you could file for section 8
>> housing .
>> Jessica
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Teal Blooworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>
>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> Actually I have found myself and others discussing this particular 
>>> topic.
>>>
>>> Stacey, Tim and I a couple weeks ago in Louisville ventured out on many
>>> occasions to highland coffee and then later 4th st live and actually
>>> everybody wanted to just take us there opposed to simply telling us left
>>> or right or just directions when needed. People would "help" us off the
>>> bus or to the bus stop rather than let us try it ourselves but after 
>>> some
>>>
>>> of them talked to us they realized we were people too and werent afraid
>>> to talk to us any longer.
>>>
>>> In owensboro where i go to school though it is a different situation.
>>> Teachers treat you differently in class and with me being the only blind
>>> person on campus i was alienated. On one occasion the social psychology
>>> class was doing a project "braking the social norms" and i actually had 
>>> a
>>>
>>> student ask me to borrow my cane for this project. In shock, I let the
>>> girl borrow my spare cane just to find out that they went into target 
>>> and
>>>
>>> knocked stuff off of the shelves. This is a stereotype and us as blind
>>> people cannot do that and really may be treated differently and
>>> stereotipically but still have to follow the same set of rules. Yes we
>>> have some accomodations, and yes we do have to work alittle harder to
>>> follow our dreams but still we are people.
>>>
>>> One thing i have found is that some people really are curious and do ask
>>> questions and personally i feel this is a good thing because they are
>>> curious and if they know hoew to help you then there is a chance they
>>> will. My boyfriend is also fine with the blindness and has really been a
>>> big help but he still worries about me doing things alone which is
>>> understandable. As for discrimination last week me and him were looking
>>> at apartments and the people gave us the run around and i think this was
>>> because i am blind. Also these apartments were not pet friendly and
>>> friday i found out i was accepted to guiding eyes in new york for the
>>> june 29th slot and they completely turned us down when i told them.
>>> discrimination is out there but is it really worht all the fuss?
>>>
>>> -Teal
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> According to social psychologists, prejudice is defined as an
>>>> emotional reaction (usually negative, but can be positive) to members
>>>> of a particular group. In common usage prejudice is often confused
>>>> with stereotyping and discrimination. The three are related, but
>>>> prejudice is the emotional component, while stereotyping is the
>>>> attitude/cognition component and discrimination  is the behavioral
>>>> component. In the case of blindness, prejudice might be someone's
>>>> reluctance to talk to us (fear or disgust), fear of  becoming blind or
>>>> anxiety about our safety. Stereotypes might include "blind people are
>>>> slow/incompetent/dirty/can't do X job" or "blind people are all good
>>>> at music". Discrimination would be actions like not teaching us to
>>>> read, not letting us sit where we  want on an airplane or giving us
>>>> preferential treatment like less homework or discounted bus fare. What
>>>> the three all have  in common  is  that, even though technically they
>>>> can all be either positive or negative, they arise from our group
>>>> membership and lead to us all being treated or thought of as the same
>>>> because of what group we belong to (i.e. blind  people) rather than
>>>> our individual strengths and weaknesses.
>>>>
>>>> My argument before was that the emotional component (prejudice) is
>>>> what underlies a lot of the persistent and hostile discrimination we
>>>> get (no matter how many times you show someone how you do a job, they
>>>> still don't think you can do it safely/won't let you try)  as well  as
>>>> a lot of deficiencies in the services and education we  get (people
>>>> feel an emotional aversion twoard blindness, and so are less willing
>>>> to give us Braille/canes/let us have independent life experiences).
>>>>
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 6/17/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we define prejudice? I know the meaning of the word but perhaps a
>>>>> clearer definition or an example as it relates to blindness would
>>>>> help. I'm just afraid this will turn into a sighted people bashing
>>>>> event; I've seen it before (not on this list) but it's a slippery
>>>>> slope.
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoting Antonio Guimaraes <aguimaraes at nbp.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We sometimes seam to do things to prove a point. I would rather take
>>>>>> part in some activity because I enjoy it, and want to get something
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> of it than I have to prove to sighted people that I can dance, walk,
>>>>>> swim, speak, read, sing, breathe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some days we tolerate ignorance better than others, but we should not
>>>>>> tolerate discrimination at any time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When have you been discriminated against, and what steps did you take
>>>>>> to resolve the situation? What steps should you have taken instead, 
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> do you think your actions were appropriate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami"
>>>>>> <marrie12 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:21 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmm this sounds like a seminar topic we once might have had at the
>>>>>>> LCB.
>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> ben lucky so far. My dance teacher is making me, for the first fiew
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> I can get my barengs use my cane while doing the steps, and mainly 
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> get my ballence issues sorted out, but there will come a time, and
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> already has where I am out there on my own with theother students 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> have to perform this stuff in less then a month. Will I have my cane
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> dance with, no, but I feel confident enough  to know the ruteen and
>>>>>>> bee
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the exact pisition I'm supposed to be in. Now the person who is
>>>>>>> helping
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> just needs to tell me the steps and when to move and whair but like 
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> bnefore there will come a time when even that will probably not
>>>>>>> happen in
>>>>>>> performance day. Am I afraid, Yes. However, I know that if I know 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> steps
>>>>>>> and get my barengs, I will be able ot show the sighted audience that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> dance even though I have no site. There is a lot of truth in what 
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>> and I believe that by showing the sighted people, in my case that I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> dance, maybe not well, but I can dance, sing, and act, this will 
>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> eyes, and many doors for me, and other blind people in the future. I
>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>> what I said makes sence. Sorry I rambled it is way too early in the
>>>>>>> morning.
>>>>>>> Hehaha!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh just in case anyone is interested in the dance class and what we
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> google "life long dreams" in Nevada.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM
>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recently we've been talking about airline discrimination, which has
>>>>>>> historically served as a good representation of the kind of
>>>>>>> second-class
>>>>>>> treatment that we often get in everyday interactions with members of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> public. I think Jedi made some good points in describing the 
>>>>>>> tendency
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> some sighted people to judge us as incompetent based on the role of
>>>>>>> sight
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> their own lives and their assumption that losing their sight would
>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>> them incapacitated. It is true that we are a tiny minority (even
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>>> community) and that a lot of sighted people simply don't know how we
>>>>>>> perform
>>>>>>> everyday tasks. In some cases this ignorance leads to discriminatory
>>>>>>> treatment ("The blind person can't sit in the exit
>>>>>>> row") or stereotypes ("Blind people are slow").
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I've always found fascinating, though, is that lack of
>>>>>>> knowledge-ignorance-doesn't always translate into discrimination. In
>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>> many sighted people are simply curious, and if we tell or show them
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> use the computer, read or travel, they quickly accept our 
>>>>>>> alternative
>>>>>>> techniques and treat us just the same as everyone else.
>>>>>>> But this doesn't happen all  the time. And then, on the flip side,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> those who know all the facts about blindness and still "don't get
>>>>>>> it".
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> includes, for  instance, the mobility instructor who's taught O&M 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> thirty
>>>>>>> years but who still insists that you should walk three blocks out of
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> way rather than cross a busy intersection. Many of us find that our
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> parents make more of a big deal out of our blindness than do people
>>>>>>> we've
>>>>>>> just met, even if our parents have met competent blind people or 
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> blindness workshops, know Braille, etc. So there definitely is a
>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>> between ignorance and prejudice. The combination of both is bad, but
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> easily have one without the other. And it's prejudice, not 
>>>>>>> ignorance,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> actually causes us trouble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, while we can easily remedy ignorance with simple
>>>>>>> education,
>>>>>>> alleviating prejudice isn't that simple. It seems like much of the
>>>>>>> persistence of people's prejudices comes from their emotional or
>>>>>>> "gut"
>>>>>>> reactions to blindness. The experienced teacher of blind students 
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> all the facts about Braille, including the fact that children who
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> Braille while young can read just as fast as sighted children. And
>>>>>>> yet,
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> some gut level the teacher feels an aversion to Braille, seeing it 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> stigma or a symbol of weakness. So no matter how well this teacher 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> trained, if she gets a kid in her caseload who has partial sight,
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to be  a struggle for the teacher to actively teach the child
>>>>>>> Braille.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> parent who finds his child's blindness frightening, likewise, is
>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>> have a hard time letting the child play outside or do chores, no
>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> much he reads about what is best for blind children, unless he
>>>>>>> figures
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> how to let go of  his fear. I think so much of the success of our
>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>> centers comes from their ability to not only teach us practical
>>>>>>> skills,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> also help us  overcome our own fears and negative feelings about
>>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yet, as Monica has demonstrated, there  are those sighted people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> display a lack of prejudice and who automatically include us and
>>>>>>> treat us
>>>>>>> normally without any prior knowledge about blindness or education on
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> parts. We all know sighted people like this, even though we often
>>>>>>> tend to
>>>>>>> spend most of our mental energy grumbling about the sighted people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> treat
>>>>>>> us strangely. My boyfriend never met a single blind person before 
>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> yet in some ways seems to instinctively "get it" more than my 
>>>>>>> mother,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> example, who besides raising me for twenty-four years, also read 
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> leading  books about raising a blind child. (Never mind that many of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> messages espoused in those books are rooted in prejudices of their
>>>>>>> own).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So  what do you guys think makes the difference between those
>>>>>>> members of the sighted public who show prejudice and those who 
>>>>>>> don't?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> something about their personalities or experiences? And if simple
>>>>>>> educating
>>>>>>> isn't enough to address people's deep-seated emotional reactions,
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> we do about it? Do we have any control over whether the sighted guy
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> street grabs us or treats us with respect? It's easy enough for us 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>> who will be responsive to education about blindness and who won't.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> those who aren't responsive, how do we deal with them civilly while
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> protecting our rights and our freedom? And how do we deal with
>>>>>>> educators
>>>>>>> like O&M instructors, who have power over what we learn or what
>>>>>>> accommodations we get but whose judgments are affected by their
>>>>>>> misconceptions about blindness?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I look forward to a lively discussion on this topic, as it's central
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> we act as an organization and how we can really change what it means
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> blind for ourselves and for others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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