[nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

Wed May 20 03:32:46 UTC 2009

Ashley,

I wouldn't call this a fair assessment of either the ACB nor the NFB.

Saying the ACB is for and the NFB is against or the NFB is for and 
the ACB is against is an oversimplification that doesn't do justice 
to either position.  In fact, one of the major arguments that NFB 
members have against ACB members is that they keep trying to cut 
arguments down to for something or against it, since it vilifies the 
NFB by suggesting that it holds positions it doesn't.

Case in point, the standard accusation that the NFB opposes guide 
dogs.  Er, what about the NFB's guide dog user's association, NAGDU?

I don't think it's fair to the ACB either, because the ACB's 
positions on issues cannot have any less support and justification 
behind them.

I personally think that informed debate between NFB and ACB positions 
would result in greater agreement between the organizations.  Our 
positions may not change, but they may become better developed in the 
process.  Perhaps that is where dialogue between the NFB and ACB can 
(and should) begin.

I wasn't successful in starting that dialogue.  I was also incensed 
by the distractions I've spoken of in other messages.  Maybe others 
would be more successful today.  Sarah's question about a fair 
comparison of the organizations may be the starting point.

Joseph

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 07:24:13PM -0400, Ashley  Bramlett wrote:
> Sara,
> The issues are complex and explaining them would take a book.  I suggest 
> you read The Braille Forum on line at acb.org and the braille monitor on  
> nfb.org.
> You'll get a sense of the different issues and strategies.
> Also read the legislative priorities for each.
> A few different priorities are:
> 1. accessible currency.  Acb supports this.
> 2. support of many audible signals and trumpicated domes (bumpy strips 
> near subway platforms)
> Acb supports, nfb doesn't.
> 3. ACB supports descriptive video/tv and wants it mandated.  NFB has a  
> priority to get nonvisual access to critical allerts on tv first.
> 4. ACB supports different training techniques for blind people.  They do  
> support braille and learning computers.  Where we differ is mobility.  
> ACB says folding canes are fine for training and supports university 
> trained OM instructors.  NFB says train with a straight long white cane 
> with structured discovery and feels blind people can be Om instructors.
> Hope this gives you a glimpse of the issues.
>
> Ashley
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud
>
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Could someone please, as objectively as possible, explain the NFB  
>> versus ACB issues? I don't really get what the big deal is ...
>> Thank you,
>> Sarah
>> Quoting David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>:
>>
>>> Jim:
>>>
>>> I think there are specific issues on which the NFB and ACB can agree
>>> and work together, but I think it is unrealistic to think we will ever
>>> combine.  First, the ACB was started by a group of people who disagreed
>>> with how the NFB was doing things.  Unless they say you were right
>>> after all and we were wrong, or unless the NFB says, your way is
>>> better, it just isn't going to happen.  Secondly, there are fundamental
>>> and basic differences between the two groups, what we believe, how we
>>> conduct our business etc.  That stuff isn't, and shouldn't go away.
>>>
>>> As I say, cooperation on specific issues can and should take place.  
>>> but...
>>>
>>> The ACB exists to do things differently from the NFB.  If you take that
>>> away from them, there isn't much left.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 03:34 PM 5/17/2009, you wrote:
>>>> Terri and Arielle,
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted to let you both know that one of the members of MABS  
>>>>  is also VP of the National Student Division of the ACB. He is   
>>>> adamatly opposed to the (bordering on childish) feud that exist   
>>>> beteen the two organizations.
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering if we can't use this oppertunity to somehow begin  
>>>> bringing the two organizations back together. After all, we will be 
>>>> then next generation leading these two organizations, and if we  
>>>> can sieze this oppertunity, maybe we students can set the example  
>>>> for  the "adults" within the two national organizations.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if a join NABS/ACB student convention would be just the  
>>>> solution to begin ending this conflict?
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> Homer Simpson's brain: "Use reverse psychology."
>>>> Homer: "Oh, that sounds too complicated."
>>>> Homer's brain: "Okay, don't use reverse psychology."
>>>> Homer: "Okay, I will!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info   
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus  
>>>> signature database 4081 (20090517) __________
>>>>
>>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus  
>> signature database 4086 (20090519) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com