[nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

Thu May 21 03:03:42 UTC 2009

Angela,

I didn't try to drum up support for joint anything.  I just went to 
the national ACB list and started posting my agreement to the issues 
with which I do agree.  I was recognized as a Federationist and it 
went mostly downhill from there.

Before there can be partnerships, we have to have civil discourse.

Joseph

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:30:32AM -0700, Angela fowler wrote:
>And I've heard a few people say "This has been tried before," but none that
>I've heard have said just how it has been tried before. Before we doom a
>project to failure because it has been tried before, let's make damn sure
>we're actually trying it in the same way that failed last time. As I have
>said on here before, there are a hundred reasons a project can fail. Let's
>figure out why it failed, learn from it and go back to the drawing board
>with a new plan. 
>	Now, I am under the impression that last time someone tried to get
>the groups together they started nationally and attempted to drum up support
>through the ACB list serve. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the
>impression I got. Aziza hasn't said one word about starting national or
>using the ACB list. I believe what she and others are talking about is
>starting locally, getting to know ACB members personally and planning small
>get-togethers. This is a totally different tact. You can't judge the later
>on the results of the former.   
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Aziza C
>Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:00 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud
>
>Joesiph,
>I  am disappointed in your comment. Like I said, I expect things in the NFB
>because I believe in it, because I have seen the positive things positive
>energy can do. And, because it's reenforced my idea to not give up. When
>I've been discouraged, seeing comments, talking to other NFB members,
>reading about the NFB has always made me feel at least a little better. But
>now, so many people are saying it won't work, just not to try, because it's
>been done, and it hasn't worked, so it is sure to never work.
>You talk about people leaving the NFB because of what they hear from the
>ACB, their minds being changed. Well... I haven't even met an ACB member in
>person, much less an NFB hater, and I can honestly say I'm disappointed. I'm
>loyal, but very disappointed.
>Aziza
>
>On 5/20/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Aziza,
>>
>> Cooperation and trust are two-way streets.  You've had those who are 
>> willing, but some of us have extended our hand in friendship only to 
>> have it bitten off at the shoulder.  Most of those aren't willing to 
>> experience that again willingly unless something has changed.  It's 
>> been just a year since I tried, so I doubt that much has.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 08:49:37PM -0700, Aziza C wrote:
>>>Joesiph,
>>>I expect things from the NFB because I believe in it.
>>>
>>>I don't expect anything from the ACB, at least not yet. I don't know 
>>>them well enough to make those observations. However, I have seen what 
>>>the NFB is capable of, and I don't think sitting here and fuming over 
>>>the fact that the ACB "hates," us is a productive way to spend my time 
>>>as an NFB member. I'd much rather try to resolve it, and do something 
>>>about it. I expect things from the NFB because i know it can happen if 
>>>people would stop making excuses and actually try to think of 
>>>productive ways to make things work.
>>>Aziza
>>>
>>>On 5/19/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> To the ACB's credit, the people running their student list when I 
>>>> was on it would not tolerate attacks on the NFB on that list.  The 
>>>> other lists were another story, but the student list was free of 
>>>> that kind of thing for the most part and the moderators worked to 
>>>> keep it that way.
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 06:45:37PM -0400, Ashley  Bramlett wrote:
>>>>> Hi Tina,
>>>>> I've not heard it from nfb members.  But from ACB members.
>>>>> I've heard and experienced the differences and attacks.  At local 
>>>>> ACB meetings it comes  up; occassional attacks but most often just 
>>>>> a different set of philosophies and priorities.  Additional as 
>>>>> someone pointed out, I've heard the NFB villified on ACB-L the list 
>>>>> serve for ACB similar to NFB's nfb-talk.
>>>>> That is what I meant by hating each other.  Sadly there is too much 
>>>>> friction and attack.  More often its from older members.  ACB 
>>>>> students and young adults are more open.  However ACB has a 
>>>>> majority of older foks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>
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