[nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

Fri May 22 07:11:08 UTC 2009

Fellow Students:

I personally don't see anything wrong with working with the ACB when 
the time calls for it, especially when we agree on something. I also 
don't see a problem with inter-organizational friendships on the local, 
state, and national level. I don't think, however, that we need to 
really force the issue of an alliance. I say let things happen as they 
happen. It seems to me that trying to force an alliance discounts the 
nature of the conflict in the first place which does have rationality 
to it. If there was no need to separate, it wouldn't have happened as 
it did on either side. Yes, we students can say "Let's just be 
friends," but it doesn't seem to me like there's much of a consensus on 
how to proceed. I say relax, take it slow, and don't force it. Easy 
does it. that's just my opinion. It'll happen if it's meant to. In the 
meantime, let's just start small by acknowleging cultural differences 
and ceasing open hostilities. I think we can all agree on that here 
regardless of how the ACB feels about it.

Respectfully,
Jedi

Original message:
> Angela,

> Small, so called grass roots efforts to get to know members of the ACB NABS,
> and then escalate it to national level smacks of secrecy, and betrayal. If
> anything is to happen here, I call upon the newlly elected boards to decide
> on a strategy. Nothing keeps one from socializing with, and being friends
> with students in the National Alliance, but let's please be more open and
> honest about what we're doing. People on both camps are smart enough and
> adult enough for that.

> Antonio Guimaraes

> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup
> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of
> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary
> works in Braille.

> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

>> And I've heard a few people say "This has been tried before," but none
>> that
>> I've heard have said just how it has been tried before. Before we doom a
>> project to failure because it has been tried before, let's make damn sure
>> we're actually trying it in the same way that failed last time. As I have
>> said on here before, there are a hundred reasons a project can fail. Let's
>> figure out why it failed, learn from it and go back to the drawing board
>> with a new plan.
>> Now, I am under the impression that last time someone tried to get
>> the groups together they started nationally and attempted to drum up
>> support
>> through the ACB list serve. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the
>> impression I got. Aziza hasn't said one word about starting national or
>> using the ACB list. I believe what she and others are talking about is
>> starting locally, getting to know ACB members personally and planning
>> small
>> get-togethers. This is a totally different tact. You can't judge the later
>> on the results of the former.

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Aziza C
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:00 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

>> Joesiph,
>> I  am disappointed in your comment. Like I said, I expect things in the
>> NFB
>> because I believe in it, because I have seen the positive things positive
>> energy can do. And, because it's reenforced my idea to not give up. When
>> I've been discouraged, seeing comments, talking to other NFB members,
>> reading about the NFB has always made me feel at least a little better.
>> But
>> now, so many people are saying it won't work, just not to try, because
>> it's
>> been done, and it hasn't worked, so it is sure to never work.
>> You talk about people leaving the NFB because of what they hear from the
>> ACB, their minds being changed. Well... I haven't even met an ACB member
>> in
>> person, much less an NFB hater, and I can honestly say I'm disappointed.
>> I'm
>> loyal, but very disappointed.
>> Aziza

>> On 5/20/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Aziza,

>>> Cooperation and trust are two-way streets.  You've had those who are
>>> willing, but some of us have extended our hand in friendship only to
>>> have it bitten off at the shoulder.  Most of those aren't willing to
>>> experience that again willingly unless something has changed.  It's
>>> been just a year since I tried, so I doubt that much has.

>>> Joseph

>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 08:49:37PM -0700, Aziza C wrote:
>>>> Joesiph,
>>>> I expect things from the NFB because I believe in it.

>>>> I don't expect anything from the ACB, at least not yet. I don't know
>>>> them well enough to make those observations. However, I have seen what
>>>> the NFB is capable of, and I don't think sitting here and fuming over
>>>> the fact that the ACB "hates," us is a productive way to spend my time
>>>> as an NFB member. I'd much rather try to resolve it, and do something
>>>> about it. I expect things from the NFB because i know it can happen if
>>>> people would stop making excuses and actually try to think of
>>>> productive ways to make things work.
>>>> Aziza

>>>> On 5/19/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> To the ACB's credit, the people running their student list when I
>>>>> was on it would not tolerate attacks on the NFB on that list.  The
>>>>> other lists were another story, but the student list was free of
>>>>> that kind of thing for the most part and the moderators worked to
>>>>> keep it that way.

>>>>> Joseph

>>>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 06:45:37PM -0400, Ashley  Bramlett wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Tina,
>>>>>> I've not heard it from nfb members.  But from ACB members.
>>>>>> I've heard and experienced the differences and attacks.  At local
>>>>>> ACB meetings it comes  up; occassional attacks but most often just
>>>>>> a different set of philosophies and priorities.  Additional as
>>>>>> someone pointed out, I've heard the NFB villified on ACB-L the list
>>>>>> serve for ACB similar to NFB's nfb-talk.
>>>>>> That is what I meant by hating each other.  Sadly there is too much
>>>>>> friction and attack.  More often its from older members.  ACB
>>>>>> students and young adults are more open.  However ACB has a
>>>>>> majority of older foks.

>>>>>> Ashley

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