[nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

Fri May 22 16:27:53 UTC 2009

Angela,
I agree.  AcB folks  in some areas will be more willing to work together.  I 
suggest you don't merge but work together on common issues you agree on. 
You can have events to know each other and learn.  For instance having a 
technology exhibit together.  Another idea is social events to go out in the 
community to a play or something for fun.  Certainly have a grass routes 
thing if you want.
Its not secrecy.
Where are you?  CA?
In some states ACB is more active than nfb and vise versa.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

> How is it secrecy and betrayal if it is public knowledge what we're doing?
> No one intends to betray anyone. It is only that in some areas ACB folks 
> are
> more likely to work with us than in other ares, so a grass roots effort 
> will
> accomplish a hell of a lot more than a national effort. I never think 
> people
> don't know what I'm doing. If anything I'd rather shout it from the roof
> tops and not have to worry about it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Antonio M. Guimaraes
> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud
>
> Angela,
>
> Small, so called grass roots efforts to get to know members of the ACB 
> NABS,
> and then escalate it to national level smacks of secrecy, and betrayal. If
> anything is to happen here, I call upon the newlly elected boards to 
> decide
> on a strategy. Nothing keeps one from socializing with, and being friends
> with students in the National Alliance, but let's please be more open and
> honest about what we're doing. People on both camps are smart enough and
> adult enough for that.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
>
> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup
> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of
> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary
> works in Braille.
>
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud
>
>
>> And I've heard a few people say "This has been tried before," but none
>> that
>> I've heard have said just how it has been tried before. Before we doom a
>> project to failure because it has been tried before, let's make damn sure
>> we're actually trying it in the same way that failed last time. As I have
>> said on here before, there are a hundred reasons a project can fail. 
>> Let's
>> figure out why it failed, learn from it and go back to the drawing board
>> with a new plan.
>> Now, I am under the impression that last time someone tried to get
>> the groups together they started nationally and attempted to drum up
>> support
>> through the ACB list serve. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 
>> the
>> impression I got. Aziza hasn't said one word about starting national or
>> using the ACB list. I believe what she and others are talking about is
>> starting locally, getting to know ACB members personally and planning
>> small
>> get-togethers. This is a totally different tact. You can't judge the 
>> later
>> on the results of the former.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Aziza C
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:00 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud
>>
>> Joesiph,
>> I  am disappointed in your comment. Like I said, I expect things in the
>> NFB
>> because I believe in it, because I have seen the positive things positive
>> energy can do. And, because it's reenforced my idea to not give up. When
>> I've been discouraged, seeing comments, talking to other NFB members,
>> reading about the NFB has always made me feel at least a little better.
>> But
>> now, so many people are saying it won't work, just not to try, because
>> it's
>> been done, and it hasn't worked, so it is sure to never work.
>> You talk about people leaving the NFB because of what they hear from the
>> ACB, their minds being changed. Well... I haven't even met an ACB member
>> in
>> person, much less an NFB hater, and I can honestly say I'm disappointed.
>> I'm
>> loyal, but very disappointed.
>> Aziza
>>
>> On 5/20/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Aziza,
>>>
>>> Cooperation and trust are two-way streets.  You've had those who are
>>> willing, but some of us have extended our hand in friendship only to
>>> have it bitten off at the shoulder.  Most of those aren't willing to
>>> experience that again willingly unless something has changed.  It's
>>> been just a year since I tried, so I doubt that much has.
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 08:49:37PM -0700, Aziza C wrote:
>>>>Joesiph,
>>>>I expect things from the NFB because I believe in it.
>>>>
>>>>I don't expect anything from the ACB, at least not yet. I don't know
>>>>them well enough to make those observations. However, I have seen what
>>>>the NFB is capable of, and I don't think sitting here and fuming over
>>>>the fact that the ACB "hates," us is a productive way to spend my time
>>>>as an NFB member. I'd much rather try to resolve it, and do something
>>>>about it. I expect things from the NFB because i know it can happen if
>>>>people would stop making excuses and actually try to think of
>>>>productive ways to make things work.
>>>>Aziza
>>>>
>>>>On 5/19/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> To the ACB's credit, the people running their student list when I
>>>>> was on it would not tolerate attacks on the NFB on that list.  The
>>>>> other lists were another story, but the student list was free of
>>>>> that kind of thing for the most part and the moderators worked to
>>>>> keep it that way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 06:45:37PM -0400, Ashley  Bramlett wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Tina,
>>>>>> I've not heard it from nfb members.  But from ACB members.
>>>>>> I've heard and experienced the differences and attacks.  At local
>>>>>> ACB meetings it comes  up; occassional attacks but most often just
>>>>>> a different set of philosophies and priorities.  Additional as
>>>>>> someone pointed out, I've heard the NFB villified on ACB-L the list
>>>>>> serve for ACB similar to NFB's nfb-talk.
>>>>>> That is what I meant by hating each other.  Sadly there is too much
>>>>>> friction and attack.  More often its from older members.  ACB
>>>>>> students and young adults are more open.  However ACB has a
>>>>>> majority of older foks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
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