[nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

Fri May 22 19:09:30 UTC 2009

While I am not a student in any official way at present, this is not really a student issue, either.  It is one that comes up in various places from time to time.  It might be 
easy for those of us who have been members of either organization for a long time to assume that the two organizations can never get together.  Certainly, I see 
some of the posturing that goes on as counterproductive.  I'm sure that both organizations often feel that the other opposes a given position just because the other is 
in favor.  That could even be true at times.

Still, it is important that people not focus on merging until a very thorough understanding of each organization is achieved.  There can be something gained by 
having two opposing views developed and articulated as sometimes happens now rather than having an issue avoided because it might cause political problems 
within a merged organization.  As one organization, we would be forced to only take positions where we all agree.  There are issues upon which we don't agree 
where articulating a position is necessary as a part of a decision making process even if the position I favor loses.  Spending a lot of time trying to merge rather than 
continuing about our business doesn't seem to me to be a good use of our energy.  I also do not think spending time badmouthing one another makes sense either.  
If we drift closer together over time, merging will take care of itself.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:27:53 -0400, Ashley  Bramlett wrote:

>Angela,
>I agree.  AcB folks  in some areas will be more willing to work together.  I 
>suggest you don't merge but work together on common issues you agree on. 
>You can have events to know each other and learn.  For instance having a 
>technology exhibit together.  Another idea is social events to go out in the 
>community to a play or something for fun.  Certainly have a grass routes 
>thing if you want.
>Its not secrecy.
>Where are you?  CA?
>In some states ACB is more active than nfb and vise versa.

>Ashley
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:35 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

>> How is it secrecy and betrayal if it is public knowledge what we're doing?
>> No one intends to betray anyone. It is only that in some areas ACB folks 
>> are
>> more likely to work with us than in other ares, so a grass roots effort 
>> will
>> accomplish a hell of a lot more than a national effort. I never think 
>> people
>> don't know what I'm doing. If anything I'd rather shout it from the roof
>> tops and not have to worry about it.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Antonio M. Guimaraes
>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:30 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud
>>
>> Angela,
>>
>> Small, so called grass roots efforts to get to know members of the ACB 
>> NABS,
>> and then escalate it to national level smacks of secrecy, and betrayal. If
>> anything is to happen here, I call upon the newlly elected boards to 
>> decide
>> on a strategy. Nothing keeps one from socializing with, and being friends
>> with students in the National Alliance, but let's please be more open and
>> honest about what we're doing. People on both camps are smart enough and
>> adult enough for that.
>>
>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>
>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup
>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of
>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary
>> works in Braille.
>>
>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud
>>
>>
>>> And I've heard a few people say "This has been tried before," but none
>>> that
>>> I've heard have said just how it has been tried before. Before we doom a
>>> project to failure because it has been tried before, let's make damn sure
>>> we're actually trying it in the same way that failed last time. As I have
>>> said on here before, there are a hundred reasons a project can fail. 
>>> Let's
>>> figure out why it failed, learn from it and go back to the drawing board
>>> with a new plan.
>>> Now, I am under the impression that last time someone tried to get
>>> the groups together they started nationally and attempted to drum up
>>> support
>>> through the ACB list serve. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 
>>> the
>>> impression I got. Aziza hasn't said one word about starting national or
>>> using the ACB list. I believe what she and others are talking about is
>>> starting locally, getting to know ACB members personally and planning
>>> small
>>> get-togethers. This is a totally different tact. You can't judge the 
>>> later
>>> on the results of the former.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Aziza C
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:00 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud
>>>
>>> Joesiph,
>>> I  am disappointed in your comment. Like I said, I expect things in the
>>> NFB
>>> because I believe in it, because I have seen the positive things positive
>>> energy can do. And, because it's reenforced my idea to not give up. When
>>> I've been discouraged, seeing comments, talking to other NFB members,
>>> reading about the NFB has always made me feel at least a little better.
>>> But
>>> now, so many people are saying it won't work, just not to try, because
>>> it's
>>> been done, and it hasn't worked, so it is sure to never work.
>>> You talk about people leaving the NFB because of what they hear from the
>>> ACB, their minds being changed. Well... I haven't even met an ACB member
>>> in
>>> person, much less an NFB hater, and I can honestly say I'm disappointed.
>>> I'm
>>> loyal, but very disappointed.
>>> Aziza
>>>
>>> On 5/20/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Aziza,
>>>>
>>>> Cooperation and trust are two-way streets.  You've had those who are
>>>> willing, but some of us have extended our hand in friendship only to
>>>> have it bitten off at the shoulder.  Most of those aren't willing to
>>>> experience that again willingly unless something has changed.  It's
>>>> been just a year since I tried, so I doubt that much has.
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 08:49:37PM -0700, Aziza C wrote:
>>>>>Joesiph,
>>>>>I expect things from the NFB because I believe in it.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't expect anything from the ACB, at least not yet. I don't know
>>>>>them well enough to make those observations. However, I have seen what
>>>>>the NFB is capable of, and I don't think sitting here and fuming over
>>>>>the fact that the ACB "hates," us is a productive way to spend my time
>>>>>as an NFB member. I'd much rather try to resolve it, and do something
>>>>>about it. I expect things from the NFB because i know it can happen if
>>>>>people would stop making excuses and actually try to think of
>>>>>productive ways to make things work.
>>>>>Aziza
>>>>>
>>>>>On 5/19/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> To the ACB's credit, the people running their student list when I
>>>>>> was on it would not tolerate attacks on the NFB on that list.  The
>>>>>> other lists were another story, but the student list was free of
>>>>>> that kind of thing for the most part and the moderators worked to
>>>>>> keep it that way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 06:45:37PM -0400, Ashley  Bramlett wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Tina,
>>>>>>> I've not heard it from nfb members.  But from ACB members.
>>>>>>> I've heard and experienced the differences and attacks.  At local
>>>>>>> ACB meetings it comes  up; occassional attacks but most often just
>>>>>>> a different set of philosophies and priorities.  Additional as
>>>>>>> someone pointed out, I've heard the NFB villified on ACB-L the list
>>>>>>> serve for ACB similar to NFB's nfb-talk.
>>>>>>> That is what I meant by hating each other.  Sadly there is too much
>>>>>>> friction and attack.  More often its from older members.  ACB
>>>>>>> students and young adults are more open.  However ACB has a
>>>>>>> majority of older foks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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