[nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

Fri May 22 20:46:50 UTC 2009

Hello Ashley and listers,

    I think it's called putting your pearls before swine. Jesus came up with 
that one not me.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

Good grief.  Joeseph how do you and others have time to post on ACB lists
being a full time student?  I say its a waste of time!  You think your way
and they think theirs.  If they choose to flame you and attack you then its
really not worth your time.
Now that summer is here I've thought about resubscribing to ACB-l but I'll
mostly be a lerker.  I have no desire to debate debates that cannot be won.
In the past when I was on ACB-l I commented to say something of common
ground or ask questions about them as a means of educating myself about
their group.  I only recieved one or two flaming remarks and those were off
list.

Joseph I generally believe what you think that we can
do what we set our minds too.  But there are times when things don't go
right when I
feel sorry for myself and do feel the world is unfair and discriminatory.  I
saw this negative attitude on ACB-l that the world was simply unfair and we
need society to do everything to help us.  One lady said the library did not
provide the newsletter in braille so she discarded it rather than asking a
reader/scanner to read it.
Since I do get down when things don't go well like readers don't show up or
cancel last minute and I flounder to get work done or run into inaccessible
web sites etc, I do understand where they're coming from.  But I am able to
pull myself together and go on with life.  It helps that I have supportive
family.  My father has filled in as a reader/driver for me when needed.  Its
a blessing to have family you can count on when fellow sighted people don't
follow through to be your eyes in an activity.
I strive to get on with life and not stay down.
"Play hard or go home."  How true.
I don't think Sara Blake was suggesting your view was inappropriate for
ACB-L.
But perhaps you should frame your tone in a gentle way.  My father says "if
you don't have nice things to say, don't say it."  If you throw out things
they'll dislike then yes you'll stir controversy and get a reputation.

As for me my life is often too busy to defend positions and debate like a
broken record on lists.  I have friends in both organizations and those
unaffiliated and intend to keep them all.  Its your choice whether to be on
ACB-l but it sounds like its not worth your time to fight fires that arise
from your views.

Ashley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ending the NFB/ACB feud

> Sarah,
>
> My posts to the ACB list were based on my view of the world:  Blind people
> can do anything they set their mind to doing.  The only limits we have are
> the ones we accept.  I can either sit around feeling sorry for myself
> because the world is unfair and discriminatory, or I can get out there and
> fight for what I want.  Play hard or go home.
>
> Are you suggesting the above is inappropriate for an ACB list, when posted
> by a Federationist?  Or that I should have concealed my affiliation,
> perhaps?
>
> That sounds much better with a Jernigan sound bite about training and
> opportunity, terms of equality, blah blah blah.  But I didn't learn it
> from Kenneth Jernigan, his writings, or the NFB.  I learned it from my
> mother, who wouldn't understand "NFB" or "Federation".  If you used the
> words National Federation of the Blind (or American Council of the Blind
> for that matter), she'd ask, "Isn't that the blind thing Joe does?"
>
> Mitch Pomeranitz said the NFB doesn't have a monopoly on its philosophy,
> and he's right.  You won't find me regurgitating sound bites except in
> discussion about how meaningless they were and are to me without
> application.  I've heard my own philosophy in the ACB, and yet its
> different if I say it, because I'm a Federationist.  Why?
>
> Seville regularly takes fire for being on the list as well.  He posts
> sparingly, and is therefore more tolerated than I was.  He and Joe Orozco
> are essentially the token Federationists.
>
> But all of this misses the point that you and Aziza expect us to change
> our behavior, attitudes, and beliefs.  You expect the ACB to concede ...
> nothing.  This isn't compromise, nor is it common ground.  It is unabashed
> appeasement, and frankly I find it distasteful.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 03:08:10AM -0400, Sarah J. Blake wrote:
>> Joseph, there are several Fedarationists who are regular participants on
>> ACB-L. (Seville Alexander comes to mind.) If the tone of your posts
>> becomes abrasive, it can affect the outcome of your dialogue. Also, the
>> fact that you are recognized as a Federationist does not mean anything.
>> You *ARE* a Federationist. Being open about that point might have been a
>> wise thing depending on what you were discussing and  how much your NFB
>> philosophy pervaded your discussion.
>>
>> Sarah J. Blake
>> Personal email: sjblake at growingstrong.org
>> http://www.growingstrong.org
>
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