[nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?

[Darian Smith]

a couple of things that  were interesting were  the concept of space.
I find so much that  people will grap you and  push you to redirect
you; something  you would clearly not do to a sighted individual.  I
wonder what logical reason people   have cross their minds  to make it
ok. to do something like that.

 As for  people identifying themselves;  some people do a rather good
job of saying   where I've met them ( that is   those who don't screw
up my   name lol).   within my time in AmeriCorps,  I would  actually
hold a conversation with someone for  a couple of minutes and  within
this conversation I could  figure out  what project  they had, what
team they were on, and by doing so I was able to successfully id  the
person.  So the only way  I  think  this relates back, is sometimes
you just have to kind of   make a person talk  a bit  and you'll
probably find out who it is if you have time to.

On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All.
> I have not been following this thread faithfully, however, I just
> schemed through and found some very interesting questions that are
> actually not unique in this setting. I am a psychology major at Emory
> University, where research is our middle name! Thus, some of this
> facial expression experiments have been conducted here. but I will
> just talk about a very classic experiment  by Paul Ekman.
> Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures from all around the
> world. He took clips of those videos and classified the facial
> expression, by categorizing what muscles in the face were used to make
> those expressions. As he watched more and more clipse he determined a
> clear pattern of emotions, of people across cultures who had never met
> each other, some of which had not tv or access to the outside world,
> and who had radically different customs and traditions.
> He then took pictures of different faces and asked others what emotion
> the subject in the picture was experiencing. He discovered that for
> the most part most people could tell what the picture was showing.
> Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which are:
> Anger
> Disgust
> Fear
> Happiness
> Sadness
> Surprise
> Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, contempt, pride,
> excitement, embarrassment, guilt,  relief, satisfaction, sensory
> pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All this is to say, that
> facial expression are not cultural or learned behavior, but rather
> biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face reflect at the very
> least these emotions that I listed. The only difference is that we are
> not readily conscious of how we make these face of guilt for example.
> Sighted people can look in the mirror and practice looking ashamed, it
> is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain lowering of the brows, we
> have to think about it and consciously make an effort if we want to
> become proficient at making these expressions at will. I am a
> performer as well, and one of the big things I work on is facial
> expression, how do I consciously convey to the audience what I'm
> feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And it is a valid skill
> to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a little bit that anger we
> fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a little long.
> But all this is to merely say, that when you are pissed off, it will
> show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not show any facial
> expression or significantly lack body language, this is not do to
> being blind and not having learned expressions, it is rather a
> personality thing, and it probably just means that you are much more
> cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than most people.
> Mary
>
> On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth <tealbloodworth at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad if
>> they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is basically a
>> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my mind....is it
>> harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to lose? Things
>> like
>> this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or not they are going to
>> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had never really been around
>> people without knowing how to act.
>>
>>             -Teal
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>>
>>
>>>I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since
>>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but
>>>this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter
>>>themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I have
>>>a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when
>>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain the
>>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth
>>>> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a
>>>> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child
>>>> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents
>>>> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this
>>>> gave me an indifferent impression.
>>>>
>>>> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my hero
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> gave me some saying i will use in the future.
>>>>
>>>>            -Teal
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Teal,
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice
>>>>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight
>>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality
>>>>> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life
>>>>> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it
>>>>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is,
>>>>> unless they let it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> Jedi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to
>>>>>> believe....maybe
>>>>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly?
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is
>>>>>> alittle
>>>>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and
>>>>>> i say
>>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a
>>>>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time
>>>>>> and in
>>>>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous
>>>>>> florescent
>>>>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since
>>>>>> birth? I
>>>>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of
>>>>>> life.
>>>>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never
>>>>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do
>>>>>> so?
>>>>>
>>>>>>             -Teal
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my
>>>>>>> facial
>>>>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't
>>>>>>> make/keep
>>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> too unreadable at times.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time
>>>>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and
>>>>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword
>>>>>>> situations.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI
>>>>>>>> isnt
>>>>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and
>>>>>>>> ability
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person
>>>>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing
>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like
>>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct
>>>>>>>> developmental
>>>>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through
>>>>>>>> environment
>>>>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative
>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>> in our biological being.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this
>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed
>>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other
>>>>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions
>>>>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these
>>>>>>>> feelings,
>>>>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your
>>>>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>            -Teal
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" <jbahm at pcdesk.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Teal,
>>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had
>>>>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's
>>>>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's
>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and
>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the
>>>>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a
>>>>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me.
>>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods  are communicated
>>>>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that
>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We
>>>>>>>>> had a
>>>>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get
>>>>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and
>>>>>>>>> took
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said
>>>>>>>>> was,
>>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill
>>>>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I
>>>>>>>>> was.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had
>>>>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all
>>>>>>>>> said I
>>>>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister
>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my
>>>>>>>>> face
>>>>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my
>>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these
>>>>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and
>>>>>>>>> learning
>>>>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't
>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive
>>>>>>>>> expressions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I
>>>>>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with
>>>>>>>>> certain
>>>>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able
>>>>>>>>> to,
>>>>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been
>>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as
>>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically
>>>>>>>>> taught
>>>>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of
>>>>>>>>> lack of
>>>>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually?
>>>>>>>>> - --
>>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the
>>>>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone
>>>>>>>>> who desperately deserves it.
>>>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm at pcdesk.net>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory University 2012
> P.O. Box 123056
> Atlanta Ga.
> 30322
> Phone: 732-857-7004
> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that
> greatness is never a given. It must be earned.
> President Barack Obama
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