[nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?

Fri Sep 25 01:16:59 UTC 2009

the way you people ar talking to me is NOT!!! appropriate so who are you to 
judge

            -Teal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?

> Yes, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate!
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Harry Hogue" <harryhogue at yahoo.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>
>
> Please do not forget that often when people direct through some physical 
> means, it is simply the best way they know to communicate direction; many 
> people find it tedious to verbally direct someone.  The physical focus 
> with the sighted person is pointing.  Explanations are not given in this 
> context; minimal verbal direction, while maximizing gestures is used. 
> Likewise, with a blind person, a physical direction to the person's 
> desired course (read: pointing) and minimal verbal direction is used.
>
> I hope I am making sense to the rest of you; it is logical to me.  A coin 
> always has two sides, a story multiple interpretations, etc...
>
> Harry
>
>
> --- On Thu, 9/24/09, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>
>> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:53 AM
>> Why do people think it is okay to
>> touch us when they wouldn't do the same to sighted
>> adults. I have thought about this a lot and have
>> concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class
>> as small children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as
>> we are semi-helpless and need assistance.
>>
>> Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully
>> functional, rights-holding adults.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote:
>> > a couple of things that were interesting
>> were the concept of space.
>> > I find so much that people will grap you
>> and push you to redirect
>> > you; something you would clearly not do to a
>> sighted individual. I
>> > wonder what logical reason
>> people have cross their minds to make
>> it
>> > ok. to do something like that.
>> >
>> > As for people identifying
>> themselves; some people do a rather good
>> > job of saying where I've met them (
>> that is those who don't screw
>> > up my name
>> lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I
>> would actually
>> > hold a conversation with someone for a couple of
>> minutes and within
>> > this conversation I could figure out what
>> project they had, what
>> > team they were on, and by doing so I was able to
>> successfully id the
>> > person. So the only way I
>> think this relates back, is sometimes
>> > you just have to kind of make a
>> person talk a bit and you'll
>> > probably find out who it is if you have time to.
>> >
>> > On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > Hello All.
>> > > I have not been following this thread faithfully,
>> however, I just
>> > > schemed through and found some very interesting
>> questions that are
>> > > actually not unique in this setting. I am a
>> psychology major at Emory
>> > > University, where research is our middle name!
>> Thus, some of this
>> > > facial expression experiments have been conducted
>> here. but I will
>> > > just talk about a very classic experiment
>> by Paul Ekman.
>> > > Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures
>> from all around the
>> > > world. He took clips of those videos and
>> classified the facial
>> > > expression, by categorizing what muscles in the
>> face were used to make
>> > > those expressions. As he watched more and more
>> clipse he determined a
>> > > clear pattern of emotions, of people across
>> cultures who had never met
>> > > each other, some of which had not tv or access to
>> the outside world,
>> > > and who had radically different customs and
>> traditions.
>> > > He then took pictures of different faces and
>> asked others what emotion
>> > > the subject in the picture was experiencing. He
>> discovered that for
>> > > the most part most people could tell what the
>> picture was showing.
>> > > Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which
>> are:
>> > > Anger
>> > > Disgust
>> > > Fear
>> > > Happiness
>> > > Sadness
>> > > Surprise
>> > > Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust,
>> contempt, pride,
>> > > excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief,
>> satisfaction, sensory
>> > > pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All
>> this is to say, that
>> > > facial expression are not cultural or learned
>> behavior, but rather
>> > > biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face
>> reflect at the very
>> > > least these emotions that I listed. The only
>> difference is that we are
>> > > not readily conscious of how we make these face
>> of guilt for example.
>> > > Sighted people can look in the mirror and
>> practice looking ashamed, it
>> > > is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain
>> lowering of the brows, we
>> > > have to think about it and consciously make an
>> effort if we want to
>> > > become proficient at making these expressions at
>> will. I am a
>> > > performer as well, and one of the big things I
>> work on is facial
>> > > expression, how do I consciously convey to the
>> audience what I'm
>> > > feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And
>> it is a valid skill
>> > > to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a
>> little bit that anger we
>> > > fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a
>> little long.
>> > > But all this is to merely say, that when you are
>> pissed off, it will
>> > > show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not
>> show any facial
>> > > expression or significantly lack body language,
>> this is not do to
>> > > being blind and not having learned expressions,
>> it is rather a
>> > > personality thing, and it probably just means
>> that you are much more
>> > > cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than
>> most people.
>> > > Mary
>> > >
>> > > On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind
>> people are socially awkwad if
>> > >> they are blind from birth. I agree with you
>> that explaining is basically a
>> > >> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought
>> questions to my mind....is it
>> > >> harder to lose your vision mid life or to
>> never have it to lose? Things
>> > >> like
>> > >> this and if one has been sheltered either
>> sighted or not they are going to
>> > >> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy
>> had never really been around
>> > >> people without knowing how to act.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> -Teal
>> > >> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list"
>> > >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM
>> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations:
>> What would you do?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>>I hope you are not implying that all
>> people that have been blind since
>> > >>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have
>> lots of sighted friends, but
>> > >>>this is not due to me not knowing how to
>> act. Also when people concitter
>> > >>>themselves blind it does not meen that
>> they see absolootly nothing. I have
>> > >>>a little bit of usable vision, but not
>> enough to do much with and when
>> > >>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't
>> bother with attempting to explain the
>> > >>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just
>> confuses people.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>> > >>> To: "National Association of Blind
>> Students mailing list"
>> > >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29
>> PM
>> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations:
>> What would you do?
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> well honestly i have only been around
>> one guy totally blind since birth
>> > >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he
>> was happy or excited he would do a
>> > >>>> wiggling of the butt up against
>> someone and would giggle like a child
>> > >>>> when he was 27. I think he was
>> sheltered his whole life by his parents
>> > >>>> since he was adopted and the only
>> blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this
>> > >>>> gave me an indifferent impression.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Another guy with retina problems can
>> see like looking through a straw
>> > >>>> and
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> was a senior in college trying to be
>> a priest. He is probably my hero
>> > >>>> and
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> gave me some saying i will use in the
>> future.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> -Teal
>> > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >>>> From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>> > >>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50
>> PM
>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward
>> Situations: What would you do?
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>> Teal,
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> I don't know which blind guys
>> you're hanging with, but I don't notice
>> > >>>>> too much difference between those
>> born blind versus those who had sight
>> > >>>>> at some point. Fundamentally,
>> there is no significant personality
>> > >>>>> differences between the two. Life
>> experiences may vary, and life
>> > >>>>> experiences shape our
>> perceptions, but not so much so that it
>> > >>>>> fundamentally changes an
>> individual on such a deep level. That is,
>> > >>>>> unless they let it.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Respectfully,
>> > >>>>> Jedi
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Original message:
>> > >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I
>> am sorry but that is hard to
>> > >>>>>> believe....maybe
>> > >>>>>> the facial expression you do
>> show is presumibly unfriendly?
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>> As for them not talking to
>> you that is rediculus. The dark shades is
>> > >>>>>> alittle
>> > >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i
>> oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and
>> > >>>>>> i say
>> > >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont
>> just see darkness. This is probably a
>> > >>>>>> psychological factor in that
>> i see a type of gray scale all the time
>> > >>>>>> and in
>> > >>>>>> department stores it seems to
>> be lighter because of the numerous
>> > >>>>>> florescent
>> > >>>>>> lighting but other times i
>> cannot really tell for sure whether i am in
>> > >>>>>> a
>> > >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you
>> been blind or visually impaired since
>> > >>>>>> birth? I
>> > >>>>>> have found a slight
>> difference in personality characteristics in
>> > >>>>>> people
>> > >>>>>> blind since birth and those
>> that have become blind in the middle of
>> > >>>>>> life.
>> > >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of
>> people who wear the dark shades but never
>> > >>>>>> personally met anyone that
>> does. Can i ask you why you choose to do
>> > >>>>>> so?
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> -Teal
>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan"
>> <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> > >>>>>> To: "National Association of
>> Blind Students mailing list"
>> > >>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20,
>> 2009 8:21 PM
>> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward
>> Situations: What would you do?
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> Most sighted people just
>> think I am angry or something based off my
>> > >>>>>>> facial
>> > >>>>>>> expression. I am just
>> neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else
>> > >>>>>>> on
>> > >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum.
>> Some people don't like it when I don't
>> > >>>>>>> make/keep
>> > >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes
>> people don't talk to me, because they think I
>> > >>>>>>> am
>> > >>>>>>> too unreadable at times.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> As a side note, how do
>> you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time
>> > >>>>>>> affects others reaction
>> to you? In my experience my dark glasses and
>> > >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless
>> body language create a lot of oukword
>> > >>>>>>> situations.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message
>> -----
>> > >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth"
>> <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>> > >>>>>>> To: "National Association
>> of Blind Students mailing list"
>> > >>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September
>> 20, 2009 9:00 PM
>> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have
>> had vision before but my eye movement via TBI
>> > >>>>>>>> isnt
>> > >>>>>>>> the best however
>> people say through my facial expressions and
>> > >>>>>>>> ability
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> to
>> > >>>>>>>> look in the direction
>> of the person thanks to depth perception
>> > >>>>>>>> people
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> say
>> > >>>>>>>> i dont even look
>> blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person
>> > >>>>>>>> looks like but i
>> believe all of these reflexes you are describing
>> > >>>>>>>> comes
>> > >>>>>>>> naturally from your
>> environment and maturation during infancy. We
>> > >>>>>>>> are
>> > >>>>>>>> actually talking
>> about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like
>> > >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing
>> and walking and talking is a distinct
>> > >>>>>>>> developmental
>> > >>>>>>>> stage according to
>> piaget. Some say we learn these through
>> > >>>>>>>> environment
>> > >>>>>>>> and social
>> interaction while others say it is a specific cognative
>> > >>>>>>>> change
>> > >>>>>>>> in our biological
>> being.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that
>> it is a very interesting question and this
>> > >>>>>>>> topic
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> is
>> > >>>>>>>> a personal interest.
>> As for showing the world when you are pissed
>> > >>>>>>>> off
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> or
>> > >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i
>> dont think you learn from actually seeing other
>> > >>>>>>>> peoples responses to
>> an action. I believe you learn these emotions
>> > >>>>>>>> through personality
>> development of what actions give you these
>> > >>>>>>>> feelings,
>> > >>>>>>>> then these feelings
>> are visually portrayed naturally.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on
>> anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your
>> > >>>>>>>> question...i am a
>> social work/psychology major
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> -Teal
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original
>> Message -----
>> > >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C.
>> Lininger" <jbahm at pcdesk.net>
>> > >>>>>>>> To: "National
>> Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> > >>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday,
>> September 20, 2009 5:29 PM
>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> Awkward Situations: What would you do?
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP
>> SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> > >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> Teal,
>> > >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny.
>> Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had
>> > >>>>>>>>> muscle control
>> over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at
>> > >>>>>>>>> other
>> > >>>>>>>>> people, eye
>> contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's
>> > >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for
>> a person to never make eye contact, and that it's
>> > >>>>>>>>> even
>> > >>>>>>>>> more
>> disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly
>> and
>> > >>>>>>>>> never
>> > >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm
>> afraid I never learned the finer points though.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat
>> related, and I'd be curious to know what the
>> > >>>>>>>>> psychologists and
>> sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a
>> > >>>>>>>>> little ground
>> work for the more general question, so bare with me.
>> > >>>>>>>>> I've
>> > >>>>>>>>> known for some
>> time that my emotions and moods are communicated
>> > >>>>>>>>> visually, at
>> least sometimes. But I had something happen that
>> > >>>>>>>>> actually
>> > >>>>>>>>> got me curious
>> about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We
>> > >>>>>>>>> had a
>> > >>>>>>>>> router go down in
>> a data center at a company I had been working for
>> > >>>>>>>>> a
>> > >>>>>>>>> few months ago.
>> I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get
>> > >>>>>>>>> everything
>> working, and that router went down at about 4 am and
>> > >>>>>>>>> took
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> the
>> > >>>>>>>>> entire company
>> off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room
>> > >>>>>>>>> and
>> > >>>>>>>>> one of the first
>> things the guy driving me to the data center said
>> > >>>>>>>>> was,
>> > >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you
>> look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill
>> > >>>>>>>>> someone." I
>> hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I
>> > >>>>>>>>> was.
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> I
>> > >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware
>> of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried
>> > >>>>>>>>> to
>> > >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and
>> ready for another day despite the promise of yet
>> > >>>>>>>>> more
>> > >>>>>>>>> problems.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> After this, I
>> became curious about exactly how expressive or not I
>> > >>>>>>>>> was
>> > >>>>>>>>> with body
>> language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had
>> > >>>>>>>>> known me for a
>> while, mainly family members about it and they all
>> > >>>>>>>>> said I
>> > >>>>>>>>> was in fact
>> expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister
>> > >>>>>>>>> even
>> > >>>>>>>>> provided a
>> running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my
>> > >>>>>>>>> face
>> > >>>>>>>>> was doing while
>> conversing with people at her house. So, here's my
>> > >>>>>>>>> question.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> I always thought
>> that at least to a point people learned these
>> > >>>>>>>>> expressions and
>> that mostly by observing those around them and
>> > >>>>>>>>> learning
>> > >>>>>>>>> what they meant.
>> I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't
>> > >>>>>>>>> work
>> > >>>>>>>>> that way, and I
>> could even understand certain reflexive
>> > >>>>>>>>> expressions.
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> For
>> > >>>>>>>>> example,
>> stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I
>> > >>>>>>>>> thought
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> the
>> > >>>>>>>>> more detailed
>> stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with
>> > >>>>>>>>> certain
>> > >>>>>>>>> expressions, that
>> sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing
>> > >>>>>>>>> in
>> > >>>>>>>>> how I can't see
>> others doing these things and never have been able
>> > >>>>>>>>> to,
>> > >>>>>>>>> how would I have
>> possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been
>> > >>>>>>>>> done
>> > >>>>>>>>> regarding such
>> things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as
>> > >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking
>> the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically
>> > >>>>>>>>> taught
>> > >>>>>>>>> those while I
>> didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas
>> > >>>>>>>>> on
>> > >>>>>>>>> what governs what
>> visual cues are natural or learned in spite of
>> > >>>>>>>>> lack of
>> > >>>>>>>>> vision and which
>> must be picked up visually?
>> > >>>>>>>>> - --
>> > >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The
>> condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the
>> > >>>>>>>>> body's natural
>> desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone
>> > >>>>>>>>> who desperately
>> deserves it.
>> > >>>>>>>>> Joseph C.
>> Lininger, <jbahm at pcdesk.net>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP
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>> > >>>>>>>>> =gV8x
>> > >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP
>> SIGNATURE-----
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
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>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
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>> > >>>>> --
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>> > >>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> _______________________________________________
>> > >> nabs-l mailing list
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>> > >> nabs-l:
>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Mary Fernandez
>> > > Emory University 2012
>> > > P.O. Box 123056
>> > > Atlanta Ga.
>> > > 30322
>> > > Phone: 732-857-7004
>> > > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we
>> understand that
>> > > greatness is never a given. It must be earned.
>> > > President Barack Obama
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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