[nabs-l] Defining Excessively Helpful People and Interactions

[Jedi]

I find that sighted people get offended no matter if I or someone else 
has nerve pain or not. I think what's happened is that, by saying no, 
we've interrupted their ability to be helpful or show they care. In 
other words, we've (in their mind) disconfirmed their helpful nature 
and compromised their identity as helpful upstanding citizens. The 
problem is that they've based that sense of self concept on something 
that has more to do with them and nothing to do with us although we are 
the targets of their helpfulness. In a real world situation, there may 
not be much that can be done about this except to acknowledge that the 
person is trying to be helpful and firmly telling them that you're not 
interested if a polite no thanks doesn't help. Alternatively, you could 
find some way they could be helpful. For example, someone might ask me 
if I want help crossing the street, and I'll (if I feel like it) offer 
them the ability to serve as conversational companion or something 
similar as we walk in the same direction. That way, we all more or less 
get what we want. But again, that's not always realistic, either. 
Sometimes, we just have to shrug when sighted folks get offended and 
not be afraid of their hurt feelings.

The most effective way I've learned to help sighted people understand 
how obnoxious they can be is to turn it back around on them. I do this 
in blindness seminars where I ask for volunteers to serve as helpers. 
They then target a friend in the class and act exactly as sighted 
people tend to act toward us. By the end of the activity, both helpers 
and helpees (as well as observers) get the point quite well. My 
seminars also include some activities and iscussion about blindness to 
help them understand that blind people are very similar to the sighted; 
this activity is one step in that process.

Respectfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> I think the scale should be based on the blind person's response to
> the offered aid. For example, someone might offer "Are you going up?"
> in an elevator, and the blind person would possibly be a-ok with that
> (I know I would) and respond something like "Yes, the second floor.
> Could you hit the button, please?" However, unwanted aid may include
> grabbing without asking, calling instructions as the blind person
> passes, and assuming the blind person is incapable of going where they
> want to go.

> I have nerve pain, so the "no touch" is especially important. Every
> touch they make to my body shoots pain down my arm/leg/back/etc.
> People just don't seem to get this. I tell them "Please don't touch
> me. I have nerve pain, and your touch hurts me." and they get offended
> like it's rude to not want to be touched. Many, after being told not
> to touch, will walk away, whether I actuallyl needed assistance or
> not, as if they don't know how to help if they can't hold my arm. Many
> more are shocked that I can follow their lead without holding their
> arm or being held by the arm, and praise me for doing "such a good job
> of following me."

> I have had peole, as I pass, call out instructions without asking,
> without even saying Hello. One man made me break out into full
> laughs....I was walking down the sidewalk, and he said "Ok, doing
> good...there's a crack a foot ahead...you are over it...now there's a
> branch in front of you about two feet to the right...good! And a curb
> down...(as I was going down on the curb) All right, you got it! Watch
> out for cars now...you're good to cross the parking lot now. Keep
> going straight now...turn left here...(and so on and so on until I was
> outside of earshot). I kept saying "Thank you, but I have it." and "I
> see it with my cane" and all sorts of re-assuring remarks. I just
> wonder how he thought I got in the middle of a shopping center as big
> as Cameron Village and how I was going to get out of it or
> whatever...did he think once I was out of his earshot, there'd be
> another magically appearing weirdo to call directions as I passed him?
> It freaked me out, but it also cracked me up how stupid it was.

> A survey of both blind and sighted people would be a good idea, I
> think. Ask questions like "Did you feel uncomfortable?" to the blind
> person and "Do you think the blind person was uncomfortable?" to the
> sighted person. Other questions might include "Were you touched
> without permission?" (blind person) / "Did you touch the blind person
> without permission?" (sighted....you'd be surprised, I think, how many
> people don't realize they are doing anything wrong.

> My two cents,
> Jewel

> On 8/24/10, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi, Arielle,
>>   Very interesting study! I like Cindy's ideas-- The number of times a
>> blind person is physically touched and the number of times the helper
>> insists on offering assistance even after the blind person has said
>> "no" are both good ways to quantify excessive helpfulness. As the
>> subjective perception of over-helpfulness can vary widely from person
>> to person, it may be a bit more difficult to make generalizations
>> based on what the blind person in this study (which I suppose might be
>> you) feels, but a discomfort scale is definitely worth including.
>> Also, it may be a good idea to record the interaction and have another
>> blind person rate his level of discomfort if he were in the same
>> situation so that you can establish some sort of interrater
>> reliability, although I realize that this may not be very feasible.
>> Overall, I think your hypotheses make a lot of sense and that you are
>> likely to get very interesting results. Good luck and keep me posted
>> about how it goes!
>>    Katie


>> On 8/24/10, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
>>> I'd still take points away for "offering an elbow." I've seen sighted
>>> people walk up to me, stand near me, and do this funny little chicken
>>> wing thing as they way "want and elbow?" or "want help?" It's a bit
>>> ridiculous. I'd much rather they start by asking me if want my help,
>>> hear my answer, and leave me alone if I don't want help or ask me how I
>>> want them to help me if I do.

>>> Respectfully,
>>> Jedi


>>> Original message:
>>>> I think Cindy's ideas are very good. Maybe you could have a point-system
>>>> to
>>>> incorporate how many times a blind  person is touched, the discomfort
>>>> scale
>>>> number of the blind person, the number of times the assistant would ask,
>>>> Are
>>>> you sure? (as Cindy suggested), perhaps take-away points if the assistant
>>>> attempts to engage in "normal" conversation, offers his/her elbow (the
>>>> proper sighted-guide method), etc.

>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> I think some good ways to quantify over helpfulness would be to count
>>>>> how many times the blind person is physically touched. Also, the
>>>>> number of times the sighted person offering help asks something along
>>>>> the lines of, "are you sure?" or repeats their request to help after
>>>>> the blind person has clearly said no.

>>>>> Also, i think that Joe brought up a good point. Over helpfulness is a
>>>>> product of the helper's offers and the feelings of the one being
>>>>> helped, so maybe a discomfort scale, or something of the sort, could
>>>>> be given to the blind person after the incident. Sorry, i'm not really
>>>>> familiar with any specific ones, but i'm sure they're out there. I
>>>>> think this would be good, because some blind people honestly aren't
>>>>> bothered by many offers to help whereas some become frustrated. There
>>>>> could be a problem if the same blind person is used in simulation,
>>>>> because after a while, they may be not as frustrated, because it is
>>>>> just a study, or more frustrated because they have been put through
>>>>> the simulation multiple times.

>>>>> Cindy

>>>>> On 8/24/10, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>     I think overly helpful people grab you and pull you to wherever
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> think you want to go. It is hard to get them to stop and
>>>>>> actually listen to your question about what restaurants or businesses
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> near so you can actually make your own choices. Others
>>>>>> might shout at us or talk to us very slowly, as if the synapses in our
>>>>>> brains must take a while to fire. Others ask our companions
>>>>>> what we want for lunch or give them our change. When a person asks a
>>>>> friend
>>>>>> or family member what I want as if I am not there, I
>>>>>> answer as if I am not there either by saying something like, "She wants
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> large Coke without ice and some fish and chips." As soon
>>>>>> as they talk to me, I stop talking as if I am not there because it
>>>>>> sounds
>>>>>> silly.
>>>>>>     At another time my husband and I were casually walking down the
>>>>> street
>>>>>> in the local town where we live. We became aware of a man
>>>>>> who was positively shrieking, "You missed the bus stop," over and over.
>>>>> My
>>>>>> husband and I are both totally blind from birth. We
>>>>>> finally realized he must be talking to us because no one was reacting
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> him, and he was not letting up. I said, "We are not going
>>>>>> to the bus stop," and the man immediately stopped yelling.
>>>>>>     Many times we have had people yelling at us about an obstacle that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> between several feet, to several store lengths away. We
>>>>>> either say Thanks, or say, "I will find it with My cane," to get them
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> stop yelling. Then, I keep walking until I find the
>>>>>> obstacle. I have found it makes people nervous when our canes contact
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> obstacle. However, it is a lot easier to get around an
>>>>>> obstacle that my cane has already found than one I am trying to skirt
>>>>>> without finding it.
>>>>>> Terri Wilcox


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>>>> --
>>>> Kathryn CARROLL
>>>> BlueLaw International LLP
>>>> 703-647-7508
>>>> Cell: 631-521-3018
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> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com

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