[nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Sarah alawami
marrie12 at gmail.com
Mon Feb 8 06:18:26 UTC 2010
I too will do that , iin the morning when I'm more awake. Right now I fell I
can't make much sence when Im this tired.
Take care and I hep he wont mind my sucky writing. Lol.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 4:24 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
David,
I don't know that companies can have it both ways. On the one hand you're
saying that the cost of sales and marketing justifies the current price of
adaptive products, but then you say that we have to consider the fact that
there is a small market. The Freedom Scientifics of the world are not
exactly pitching radio and television commercials. They may be spending a
little money on Internet advertisement, but after a product is launched, do
you really see that many ads competing for business? If we can agree that
the government is an adaptive company's largest customer, I think we could
agree there is something to be said for customer loyalty, a loyalty whose
need for extravagant sales and marketing is minimal. I would argue that it
is blind people themselves who carry the bulk of the marketing through their
blogs, podcasts and list posts.
Where does profit measure into your logic model? You can't possibly think
the money is all being spent on sales, marketing and support. By the way,
the support at Freedom Scientific isn't exactly scientific. Too many times
I have found better help on the lists than I have from their
representatives. This is, of course, not true across the board. There are
a couple of great guys over there, but my point is that we should not
minimize the amount the executives are pocketing at our expense. Would
Wafra Partners have bought Freedom Scientific if it did not see something to
gain from the purchase? Here here for capitalism, but surely these
executives must know that better products would also mean greater demand.
I don't know how much it costs to develop a single notetaker. I think they
could have made a better Pac Mate seeing as how all they did was transplant
an existing operating system and screen reader. I think JAWS 11 could have
had more to it than the Research It feature. What I do know is that
companies like Freedom Scientific and Humanware have a development roadmap.
We may be in the dark about what may lie in three upgrades from now, but
their engineers know what they're going to consist of. If what you say is
true that the money is comparable to the cost of what it takes to get the
product out, then I think consumers have every right to put pressure on the
companies to speed up those roadmaps.
A couple of computer science students have been asking Humanware to release
a public version of the SDK so that they can release their own applications
to extend the functionality of the new Apex. Humanware has said it would
only sell the SDK to companies, and from what I understand, these prices are
not low. What does that tell you about the company's interest in extending
development?
I do not mean to oversimplify the problem. I also do not mean to trivialize
the contributions of adaptive developers. I would like to see opportunities
for more working professionals to afford the technology. If, however, I and
others are going to be expected to shell out hundreds, sometimes thousands,
of dollars to get the latest software release or hardware upgrades, we want
more for our hard-earned money. Consumer satisfaction is also part of that
capitalism monster, and for too long we have been given bits and pieces and
have been expected to be satisfied.
Talk to us a little more about this subsidy program. You may be on to
something. I hope to get my little group of interested people into action
here in the next couple of weeks. Part of it is finding the time to
coordinate it all between a full-time job and running a part-time business.
My group have their own schedules to juggle, but I really am confident about
the outcomes. We're not going to fail on account of lack of hard work.
Joe Orozco
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 9:12 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Joe:
No one likes expensive devices and software. However, just objecting to the
expense doesn't change what the company has to pay to develop and market a
product. A lot of the cost is in the marketing, sales, and support of a
product -- if we could figure a way to bring those costs down, it might
help. The numbers also hurt us -- that is relatively speaking, it isn't a
large market, so there just aren't economies of scale. One of the most
successful AT devices of all times is the Stream. I don't know how many
Humanware has sold, although I have heard in the 12,000 to 15,000 range,
which seems about right t0o me. Apple probably sells 100,000 iPods a month
-- that is what I mean by economies of scale.
Can or should a company set up a financing program. Well, it is nice, but
easier to do for software, because the actual costs are not great, so you
don't actually have to front money. With hardware, the company has to
actually build something -- which m4eans buying the parts etc. So we
generally just see financing of software by companies themselves.
I personally think the government should subsidize purchases, or the
companies, to make things cheaper. Otherwise I don't know how it will
happen.
Dave
At 09:30 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>Hi David,
>
>You're an excellent person to answer some of these questions,
given your
>diverse background. These are not challenges to your message.
Rather, I'm
>trying to get a better sense of the landscape.
>
>1. If you agree there are many people who cannot afford the
technology they
>need, why is it unfair to criticize developers for maintaining
high price
>tags for their products? In your experience, is it completely
unfeasible to
>ask companies to run a financing program similar to that GW
Micro offers for
>its Window Eyes product?
>
>2. If the products are expensive to develop, why are consumers
not receiving
>more for their investment? This sounds like a contradiction
in itself, but
>one would suppose that if updates and upgrades take time to
release, why
>aren't releases aiming to compete with mainstream devices? 8
gigs of memory
>is appreciated and a long step from the previous capacity of Braille
>notetakers, but one could purchase a netbook with 20 times the
capacity at
>20 times less than the cost of a Braille notetaker.
>
>To clarify, I am not making government agencies the enemy. I
am holding
>developers fully responsible for developing products that will
largely be
>marketed to government agencies. In an age where government
employees have
>better computer systems at home than they do at work, it makes
sense that
>government agencies are overlooking the fact that the
technology they are
>dishing out thousands of dollars for is not meeting its full
potential. In
>a normal market developers would develop products according to
the needs of
>the consumers. Instead, we have a market where consumers can
voice their
>opinions and hope that their feedback will be filtered through
agencies like
>the IRS, who are primarily responsible for Freedom Scientific producing
>40-cell Braille displays. Adaptive technology companies make large
>announcements about new products, get the customer base in a frenzy and
>count on this customer base to pressure agencies into purchasing the
>equipment. There is something wrong with this picture.
>
>I appreciate the work developers have done to keep blind
people in the loop.
>No one will deny that their products have made careers
possible, but I think
>there needs to be a real voice from consumers that is heard
and responded
>to. The legislation concerning the technology bill of rights
is one method,
>but here again we are relying on policymakers to act on our behalf.
>
>Given my background in professional fundraising, I would like
to convene a
>team of people to help me approach companies about setting up
a fund to help
>professionals obtain the technology they need to make their daily work
>possible. Yet, I do not think this is the first priority. Such a step
>would suggest we are okay with the current price structure and
mostly lack
>of financing opportunities.
>
>Anyway, it's a rant, but I've already collected a score of
personal stories
>from people who disagree with your opinion. Nevertheless, you
seem to have
>a well-rounded perspective on this issue and hope you can
provide further
>insight.
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:52 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>Max, You are right in some of your conclusions -- but not in others.
>You are right that there are many individuals who can't afford the
>technology they need or could use.
>
>However, you seem to be making the Assistive Technology developers, and
>government agencies the enemy. This is not the case. I have been on
>all sides of the fence, individual, technology developer, and work for
>a state agency.
>
>It is not like the defense industry, the government doesn't give
>manufacturers big open-ended, cost plus contracts. Yes, they buy
>stuff, but at the going price, or in come cases less because they can
>negotiate discounts due to volume. They are not the enemy here.
>
>Secondly, all this stuff is expensive to develop -- I suspect more then
>you realize.
>
>Yes, a way to help individuals acquire technology is needed, but the
>solution isn't to make the government, or developers your enemy.
>
>David Andrews
>
>At 10:45 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote:
> >Dear list,
> >
> >I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
> >technology. While you're in college you might receive
>assistance from your
> >rehab agency to purchase equipment. You may get some
>assistance after you
> >find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
> >directly from your own pocket. I wonder how many people have
>had to settle
> >for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.
>But, that's
> >the thing. I'm only assuming there are tons of people who
>cannot afford
> >this technology. I'd like to lead a campaign to call public
>attention to
> >this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether
>or not you
> >think me crazy. If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views
>to myself.
> >If there is a high number of people unable to tap into
>emerging software
> >simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you. I
> >understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to
>develop. Yet, it
> >seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant
>government contracts
> >that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200
for a device
> >that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform
>completely on par
> >with its mainstream counterparts.
> >
> >At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy. Yet
>it's something
> >I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
> >
> >Looking forward to your input,
> >
> >Joe Orozco
> >
> >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> >crowd."--Max Lucado
> >
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
virus signature database 4842 (20100206) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4845 (20100207) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com
More information about the NABS-L
mailing list