[nabs-l] DSB delaying needed equipment

Sat Jul 24 15:10:20 UTC 2010

Thanks for that clarification. I requested either a Braille notetaker
(such as the PacMate or BrailleNote) or a laptop with a refreshable
Braille display. The person who did the initial assessment thought a
laptop and refreshable Braille display would be a better set-up than a
Braille notetaker for flexibility, ease of use, and usability with
third-party programs such as my DaybyDay planning calendar. I agreed
with this assessment, though if they gave me a Braille notetaker
instead of the laptop-Braille display combination, I would not turn it
down and would work with it I think about equally as well. My concern
is that if I get a laptop, I must have a way to read my books and
notes in Braille. The embosser will help with this, but putting my
textbooks and notes all in hard-copy Braille is not feasible, I think,
and a waste of paper. But I simply cannot listen to long segments of
audio, especially when I'm supposed to be listening to the professor
(I know I can read the book ahead of time, but in my Spanish class, at
least, we will be doing a lot of reading aloud).

I'm hoping to be on my way with getting this resolved Monday. It's
really frustrating and I'm impatient about the weekend.

I do appreciate everyone's input on this. It has given me many things
to think about and some encouragement that I should be getting what I
need for school.

~Jewel

On 7/24/10, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think what I meant by "luxury" is the large Braille display that
> connects to a computer. While these are ideal, I think you can get
> almost the same degree of access with a portable Braille notetaker
> with a Braille display, such as a Braille Note or Pac Mate, and I
> believe portable notetakers are also cheaper than Braille display
> computer hookups. Jewel, I don't remember if you had requested both a
> Braille notetaker and a Braille display in your original equipment
> setup, but if you  find yourself needing to negotiate, the Braille
> notetaker will give you lots of Braille functionality whether you
> choose to read your books on it or listen and take notes in Braille,
> as I do.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 7/23/10, Jewel S. <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you for this resource. I wil lread it; it looks good. I can
>> quote it in my complaints, I'm sure.
>>
>> ~Jewel
>>
>> On 7/23/10, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi again,
>>>
>>> This resource is long, but really highlights Voc Rehab's responsibilities
>>> with specific RSA situations. This should help you a great deal.
>>>
>>> http://www.nls.org/vrron.htm
>>>
>>> Briley
>>> On Jul 23, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Jewel S. wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is my feelings also. I do not think the refreshable Braille
>>>> display is a luxury, but an essential tool for my learning. I am a
>>>> visual and tactile learner, and have a lot of trouble learning by
>>>> audio teaching only. I often have to re-read what JAWS has read to me
>>>> several times, and have to rewind audio books if I have the least
>>>> distraction (such as someone making a comment to me or the radio or tv
>>>> or pretty much any background noise can distract me).
>>>>
>>>> A quick update. They want to do an accessment (laptop or PDA). I'm
>>>> going to ask about justifying just getting the laptop, as I think
>>>> it'll be the easiest way to go (more compatibility with programs, more
>>>> connection with other students, less expensive for DSB, more versatile
>>>> in future programs that I purchase). The supervisor was not in today;
>>>> I will speak to him on Monday and get this all straightened out.
>>>>
>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>
>>>> On 7/23/10, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just wanted to offer that I don't agree that a Braille display is a
>>>>> "luxury", and that you shouldn't push for Voc Rehab to provide it. Is
>>>>> having
>>>>> print a "luxury", for sighted students? No. If Braille is your
>>>>> preferred
>>>>> reading medium, you shouldn't be forced to just get by with only audio
>>>>> if
>>>>> that is not how you best learn. They would never send a sighted student
>>>>> off
>>>>> to college and say, "Good luck getting by with no print books." Voc
>>>>> Rehab
>>>>> can provide this for you, and moving up the chain of command will
>>>>> achieve
>>>>> the quickest results. Every regional office has specific complaint
>>>>> procedures which you can request in writing from your councilor's
>>>>> manager.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>> Briley
>>>>> On Jul 22, 2010, at 4:44 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jewel and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an old story that I've heard way too many times from students.
>>>>>> Your counselor's actions (or non-actions) are ridiculous and
>>>>>> definitely need to be addressed with her supervisor(s). In the
>>>>>> meantime, though, I think it's important to come up with a plan B that
>>>>>> doesn't involve DSB at all, at least while you're waiting. A few
>>>>>> ideas:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. With rehab, I'd focus on getting the computer and scanner. The
>>>>>> refreshable Braille display and embosser are nice, but they're
>>>>>> luxuries, not necessities, in my opinion. Asking for just a couple
>>>>>> pieces of equipment rather than the whole gamut may be less
>>>>>> complicated/bureaucratic.
>>>>>> 2. Does your school have an office for blind/disabled students? If so
>>>>>> they very well might have equipment for loan, like computers, and they
>>>>>> should have public-access scanners that you can walk in and use. If
>>>>>> not, find out if there's anywhere else on campus (like the bookstore
>>>>>> or library) where you can borrow or rent a computer for low or no
>>>>>> cost. Perhaps family members or friends might have extra computers you
>>>>>> can borrow? Once you have the computer, you should be able to download
>>>>>> a free open-source screen reader to use with it.
>>>>>> 2. The NFB has a technology loan program and your NFB affiliate might
>>>>>> have one too. Call the NFB Braille and Technology Center at
>>>>>> 410-659-9314 for details. Of course borrowing equipment for free is
>>>>>> better than racking up interest, but it could be a last-resort,
>>>>>> temporary option.
>>>>>> 3. If you can't get a portable computer, see if any of the public
>>>>>> computers on your campus are accessible (all Mac's are out of the
>>>>>> box). What you may need to do in a pinch is use a voice recorder in
>>>>>> class and then use the public computer for assignments.
>>>>>> 4. Remember that
>>>>>> www.rfbd.org
>>>>>> provides books in audio format, and
>>>>>> www.bookshare.org
>>>>>> provides books for free in a text format that you can read on a
>>>>>> regular computer (either the public computer or a rented one).
>>>>>> 5. Don't forget that readers are low-tech and relatively cheap
>>>>>> (usually $7 per hour) and if your school has a community service club,
>>>>>> you might be able to find volunteer readers. If rehab is
>>>>>> uncooperative, your school (either the disability resource center or
>>>>>> the department of your major) may be willing to help pay for readers,
>>>>>> at least initially while you wait for equipment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In short, while you should definitely nag rehab to get you what you
>>>>>> need (especially the laptop, scanner, and perhaps an audio book player
>>>>>> like a Stream), rehab isn't, and shouldn't be, your only option. I
>>>>>> think the only piece of equipment that's really mission-critical is a
>>>>>> computer, and that can be either a personal computer or a public
>>>>>> computer. Even your local public library might have a public computer
>>>>>> you can use. I'd recommend staying in your classes if at all possible.
>>>>>> Textbooks can be read with readers (readers can even be students in
>>>>>> your classes, who have to read the books anyway), or with a public
>>>>>> scanner (which might be available in the library or DRC).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best of luck and please keep us posted on your progress.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/22/10, William ODonnell <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I would have to say that I agree with Joe on many of the points he
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>> Also, keep some things “off record” with your councilor.  I am
>>>>>>> referring
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the suggestions of you purchasing a net book that you provided in
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> email.  Remember the following approach: don’t ask, don’t tell or do
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> give any additional information than requested.
>>>>>>> In addition, always copy a supervisor when you’re documenting so the
>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>> of what you discuss is not altered or misrepresented at a later date.
>>>>>>> Finally, investigate whether or not your local independent living
>>>>>>> center
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> advocates that will speak on your behalf.
>>>>>>> Note: some colleges and universities have laptops or net books that
>>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>>> students can reserve from there DSS office for use during class.  In
>>>>>>> regard
>>>>>>> to readers or reading services, some organizations for the blind as
>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> community centers have people from the community who volunteer who
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> assist you.  In addition, check with your college or university to
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> you can post an add requesting for volunteers to assist you when time
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the essence and your accommodations/equipment is not available.  I
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> following since it is a reality.  Note: I do not want to discourage
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> scare
>>>>>>> you; however, throughout your college career, you will learn and see
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> you will need to liquidate all avenues since many times you will
>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>> faulty services and accommodations while meeting important deadlines
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> other student.  You will need to be strong and always be your own
>>>>>>> advocate
>>>>>>> while never losing focus with your agenda.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] DSB delaying needed equipment
>>>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 11:30 AM
>>>>>>>> Hi Jewel,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see online that North Carolina just started a new fiscal
>>>>>>>> year.  This is
>>>>>>>> bad, because this is when agencies can afford to lapse a
>>>>>>>> little.  If I were
>>>>>>>> you, and taking your budget into consideration, this is my
>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>> recommendation:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Take Justin's suggestion and go straight to the director
>>>>>>>> of that field
>>>>>>>> office.  It's not your job to ease this counselor into
>>>>>>>> her new position.
>>>>>>>> Your first priority is getting what you need to be ready
>>>>>>>> for school.  Put
>>>>>>>> your communications to the director in writing.  Say
>>>>>>>> in your first e-mail
>>>>>>>> that you will follow up via telephone in a few days to talk
>>>>>>>> about what can
>>>>>>>> be done.  Later, after your phone call, send another
>>>>>>>> e-mail summarizing what
>>>>>>>> was talked about.  Always keep a written record of
>>>>>>>> your communications.  In
>>>>>>>> the letter you should give a brief summary of the events to
>>>>>>>> this point, but
>>>>>>>> I would spend more time listing the equipment you need and
>>>>>>>> a good
>>>>>>>> justification for why you need them.  This may
>>>>>>>> somewhat minimize the need
>>>>>>>> for an assessment if you can give concrete reasons for why
>>>>>>>> the products are
>>>>>>>> required.  Also, rank your products in order of most
>>>>>>>> important.  The Victor
>>>>>>>> Stream, for example, may be a necessity, but it could
>>>>>>>> probably go near or at
>>>>>>>> the bottom since your top priority is the ability to take
>>>>>>>> notes in class.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. Locate the individual or office that handles technology
>>>>>>>> assessments.  The
>>>>>>>> more people you have inquiring into your case, the better,
>>>>>>>> and even if they
>>>>>>>> say they need to hear from your counselor, when your
>>>>>>>> counselor calls the
>>>>>>>> people will be familiar with you and have more of an
>>>>>>>> incentive to act.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Talk to your NFB affiliate president.  He or she
>>>>>>>> may know of someone
>>>>>>>> working in the agency who can look into your case.
>>>>>>>> The affiliate should
>>>>>>>> also prove to be a good advocate on your behalf.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. Locate your nearest Lions Club.  They may be able
>>>>>>>> to step in and help
>>>>>>>> with the cost of a netbook.  If you can get that, you
>>>>>>>> can use one of the
>>>>>>>> free or reasonably priced screen readers while you wait for
>>>>>>>> your other
>>>>>>>> technology to arrive.  The main thing is to get you
>>>>>>>> something for the first
>>>>>>>> day of class, and I think your Lions Club or Rotary Club
>>>>>>>> should be able to
>>>>>>>> generate $300 on your behalf.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is, at least, a start.  I'm in a bit of a rush
>>>>>>>> but can offer more later
>>>>>>>> if you're still in a bind.  Hopefully others will
>>>>>>>> chime in as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>>>>>>>> their sleeves,
>>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at
>>>>>>>> all."--Sam Ewing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Jewel S.
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:06 AM
>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] DSB delaying needed equipment
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am having serious issues with DSB here in North Carolina.
>>>>>>>> I begin
>>>>>>>> classes August 16, and have been working toward getting
>>>>>>>> some needed
>>>>>>>> equipment. This equipment is a netbook with JAWS, a
>>>>>>>> refreshable
>>>>>>>> Braille display, a VictorStream Reader, a Juliette
>>>>>>>> embosser, a
>>>>>>>> scanner, OpenBook scanning program and Dusxbury
>>>>>>>> (spelling?), and JAWS
>>>>>>>> for my home computer. I have been working very hard on my
>>>>>>>> side to get
>>>>>>>> this done in time for classes. However, I was reassigned
>>>>>>>> recently to a
>>>>>>>> new VR counselor (by new, I mean green...this is her first
>>>>>>>> position).
>>>>>>>> She did not even know who the assessment person *was*, let
>>>>>>>> alone how
>>>>>>>> to do an assessment referral, so after I saw one person for
>>>>>>>> review of
>>>>>>>> my home computer and basic needs, she did nothing with
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> information, despite him having stated that I needed an
>>>>>>>> assessment
>>>>>>>> with a particular computer teacher. It was not until I
>>>>>>>> asked him what
>>>>>>>> the next step was again that he said that my counselor
>>>>>>>> should have set
>>>>>>>> up the assessment (when I had talked to him the first time,
>>>>>>>> he had
>>>>>>>> said that my VR counselor would see the referral sent and I
>>>>>>>> needed to
>>>>>>>> just wait for the referral to go through).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, because of my counselor's delay in getting the
>>>>>>>> referral done, the
>>>>>>>> paperwork has not even been submitted for my equipment. At
>>>>>>>> first, they
>>>>>>>> told me it would take two to three weeks to get the
>>>>>>>> equipment. Then
>>>>>>>> they said one month. Now they are saying that it could take
>>>>>>>> up to two
>>>>>>>> months!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Classes start August 16, and I do not have any of the
>>>>>>>> equipment I
>>>>>>>> need. The only method of note-taking I have (other than
>>>>>>>> getting a
>>>>>>>> notetaker to take notes for me, which I'd rather not) is my
>>>>>>>> slate and
>>>>>>>> stylus. With my physical problems, I can only use a slate
>>>>>>>> for a few
>>>>>>>> lines at a time before my wrist and arm begin to hurt very
>>>>>>>> badly, so I
>>>>>>>> don't see that as a possibility at all. I do not even have
>>>>>>>> a voice
>>>>>>>> recorder, though I am considering whether I have the funds
>>>>>>>> to purchase
>>>>>>>> one myself (I am on a very tight budget these days).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have suggested the solution of renting a laptop until my
>>>>>>>> equipment
>>>>>>>> comes in. However, my counselor seems to have taken that to
>>>>>>>> mean that
>>>>>>>> I am willing to buy a used laptop on my own. She has
>>>>>>>> suggested places
>>>>>>>> to purchase used laptops and said she will look into it
>>>>>>>> also. When I
>>>>>>>> asked her whether this would take the place of the laptop
>>>>>>>> promised me
>>>>>>>> by DSB, she didn't answer directly but told me that the
>>>>>>>> laptop I would
>>>>>>>> purchase would last me throughout my curriculum. But if
>>>>>>>> it's used, how
>>>>>>>> can she be so sure? And how does she expect me to pay for
>>>>>>>> such a
>>>>>>>> laptop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is this appropriate action on the behlaf of my counselor?
>>>>>>>> SWhat should
>>>>>>>> I expect to happen? If she is not doing things properly,
>>>>>>>> who should I
>>>>>>>> bring this up with?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I said, classes start in a few weeks. I do not have a
>>>>>>>> way to record
>>>>>>>> the classes, type notes, read my books in class, or
>>>>>>>> complete
>>>>>>>> worksheets in class. I will basically be stuck relying on
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> students to take notes for me, read exercises to me, and
>>>>>>>> will not be
>>>>>>>> able to participate when the class reads the books. I might
>>>>>>>> as well
>>>>>>>> not even attend class, for all I will be able to do! From
>>>>>>>> what DSB is
>>>>>>>> telling me, it will be halfway through the semester before
>>>>>>>> I get any
>>>>>>>> of my needed equipment. Is the renting of a laptop a
>>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>>>> accommodation while I wait, or should I drop these classes
>>>>>>>> and wait
>>>>>>>> until next semester? I will not be able to participate
>>>>>>>> appropriately
>>>>>>>> in class without even a laptop, and my grades will be
>>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>>> effected by this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any advice, please?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>>> Jewel Shuping
>>>>>>>> Wake Tech Community College
>>>>>>>> Raleigh, NC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>>>>>> Email:
>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>>>> Website:
>>>>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>