[nabs-l] DSB delaying needed equipment

Sat Jul 24 21:44:32 UTC 2010

Hi Jewel,

I wonder if you can ask for a laptop with JAWS, a Braille notetaker,
and a scanner. That's the setup I use and I've been very pleased with
it-electronic books and notes can be read on the Braille Note's
Braille display, while the laptop can be used for the third-party
applications you described. I tried bringing a Braille embosser to
college my first year, and I found myself never using it since I had
Braille access on my notetaker and, as you mention, Brailling
textbooks yourself is quite labor-intensive.

Best of luck!
Arielle

On 7/24/10, Jewel S. <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for that clarification. I requested either a Braille notetaker
> (such as the PacMate or BrailleNote) or a laptop with a refreshable
> Braille display. The person who did the initial assessment thought a
> laptop and refreshable Braille display would be a better set-up than a
> Braille notetaker for flexibility, ease of use, and usability with
> third-party programs such as my DaybyDay planning calendar. I agreed
> with this assessment, though if they gave me a Braille notetaker
> instead of the laptop-Braille display combination, I would not turn it
> down and would work with it I think about equally as well. My concern
> is that if I get a laptop, I must have a way to read my books and
> notes in Braille. The embosser will help with this, but putting my
> textbooks and notes all in hard-copy Braille is not feasible, I think,
> and a waste of paper. But I simply cannot listen to long segments of
> audio, especially when I'm supposed to be listening to the professor
> (I know I can read the book ahead of time, but in my Spanish class, at
> least, we will be doing a lot of reading aloud).
>
> I'm hoping to be on my way with getting this resolved Monday. It's
> really frustrating and I'm impatient about the weekend.
>
> I do appreciate everyone's input on this. It has given me many things
> to think about and some encouragement that I should be getting what I
> need for school.
>
> ~Jewel
>
> On 7/24/10, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I think what I meant by "luxury" is the large Braille display that
>> connects to a computer. While these are ideal, I think you can get
>> almost the same degree of access with a portable Braille notetaker
>> with a Braille display, such as a Braille Note or Pac Mate, and I
>> believe portable notetakers are also cheaper than Braille display
>> computer hookups. Jewel, I don't remember if you had requested both a
>> Braille notetaker and a Braille display in your original equipment
>> setup, but if you  find yourself needing to negotiate, the Braille
>> notetaker will give you lots of Braille functionality whether you
>> choose to read your books on it or listen and take notes in Braille,
>> as I do.
>>
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 7/23/10, Jewel S. <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thank you for this resource. I wil lread it; it looks good. I can
>>> quote it in my complaints, I'm sure.
>>>
>>> ~Jewel
>>>
>>> On 7/23/10, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi again,
>>>>
>>>> This resource is long, but really highlights Voc Rehab's
>>>> responsibilities
>>>> with specific RSA situations. This should help you a great deal.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nls.org/vrron.htm
>>>>
>>>> Briley
>>>> On Jul 23, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Jewel S. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is my feelings also. I do not think the refreshable Braille
>>>>> display is a luxury, but an essential tool for my learning. I am a
>>>>> visual and tactile learner, and have a lot of trouble learning by
>>>>> audio teaching only. I often have to re-read what JAWS has read to me
>>>>> several times, and have to rewind audio books if I have the least
>>>>> distraction (such as someone making a comment to me or the radio or tv
>>>>> or pretty much any background noise can distract me).
>>>>>
>>>>> A quick update. They want to do an accessment (laptop or PDA). I'm
>>>>> going to ask about justifying just getting the laptop, as I think
>>>>> it'll be the easiest way to go (more compatibility with programs, more
>>>>> connection with other students, less expensive for DSB, more versatile
>>>>> in future programs that I purchase). The supervisor was not in today;
>>>>> I will speak to him on Monday and get this all straightened out.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/23/10, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just wanted to offer that I don't agree that a Braille display is a
>>>>>> "luxury", and that you shouldn't push for Voc Rehab to provide it. Is
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> print a "luxury", for sighted students? No. If Braille is your
>>>>>> preferred
>>>>>> reading medium, you shouldn't be forced to just get by with only audio
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> that is not how you best learn. They would never send a sighted
>>>>>> student
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> to college and say, "Good luck getting by with no print books." Voc
>>>>>> Rehab
>>>>>> can provide this for you, and moving up the chain of command will
>>>>>> achieve
>>>>>> the quickest results. Every regional office has specific complaint
>>>>>> procedures which you can request in writing from your councilor's
>>>>>> manager.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>> Briley
>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2010, at 4:44 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Jewel and all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is an old story that I've heard way too many times from
>>>>>>> students.
>>>>>>> Your counselor's actions (or non-actions) are ridiculous and
>>>>>>> definitely need to be addressed with her supervisor(s). In the
>>>>>>> meantime, though, I think it's important to come up with a plan B
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> doesn't involve DSB at all, at least while you're waiting. A few
>>>>>>> ideas:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. With rehab, I'd focus on getting the computer and scanner. The
>>>>>>> refreshable Braille display and embosser are nice, but they're
>>>>>>> luxuries, not necessities, in my opinion. Asking for just a couple
>>>>>>> pieces of equipment rather than the whole gamut may be less
>>>>>>> complicated/bureaucratic.
>>>>>>> 2. Does your school have an office for blind/disabled students? If so
>>>>>>> they very well might have equipment for loan, like computers, and
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> should have public-access scanners that you can walk in and use. If
>>>>>>> not, find out if there's anywhere else on campus (like the bookstore
>>>>>>> or library) where you can borrow or rent a computer for low or no
>>>>>>> cost. Perhaps family members or friends might have extra computers
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> can borrow? Once you have the computer, you should be able to
>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>> a free open-source screen reader to use with it.
>>>>>>> 2. The NFB has a technology loan program and your NFB affiliate might
>>>>>>> have one too. Call the NFB Braille and Technology Center at
>>>>>>> 410-659-9314 for details. Of course borrowing equipment for free is
>>>>>>> better than racking up interest, but it could be a last-resort,
>>>>>>> temporary option.
>>>>>>> 3. If you can't get a portable computer, see if any of the public
>>>>>>> computers on your campus are accessible (all Mac's are out of the
>>>>>>> box). What you may need to do in a pinch is use a voice recorder in
>>>>>>> class and then use the public computer for assignments.
>>>>>>> 4. Remember that
>>>>>>> www.rfbd.org
>>>>>>> provides books in audio format, and
>>>>>>> www.bookshare.org
>>>>>>> provides books for free in a text format that you can read on a
>>>>>>> regular computer (either the public computer or a rented one).
>>>>>>> 5. Don't forget that readers are low-tech and relatively cheap
>>>>>>> (usually $7 per hour) and if your school has a community service
>>>>>>> club,
>>>>>>> you might be able to find volunteer readers. If rehab is
>>>>>>> uncooperative, your school (either the disability resource center or
>>>>>>> the department of your major) may be willing to help pay for readers,
>>>>>>> at least initially while you wait for equipment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In short, while you should definitely nag rehab to get you what you
>>>>>>> need (especially the laptop, scanner, and perhaps an audio book
>>>>>>> player
>>>>>>> like a Stream), rehab isn't, and shouldn't be, your only option. I
>>>>>>> think the only piece of equipment that's really mission-critical is a
>>>>>>> computer, and that can be either a personal computer or a public
>>>>>>> computer. Even your local public library might have a public computer
>>>>>>> you can use. I'd recommend staying in your classes if at all
>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>> Textbooks can be read with readers (readers can even be students in
>>>>>>> your classes, who have to read the books anyway), or with a public
>>>>>>> scanner (which might be available in the library or DRC).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best of luck and please keep us posted on your progress.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/22/10, William ODonnell <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I would have to say that I agree with Joe on many of the points he
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>>> Also, keep some things “off record” with your councilor.  I am
>>>>>>>> referring
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the suggestions of you purchasing a net book that you provided in
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> email.  Remember the following approach: don’t ask, don’t tell or do
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> give any additional information than requested.
>>>>>>>> In addition, always copy a supervisor when you’re documenting so the
>>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>>> of what you discuss is not altered or misrepresented at a later
>>>>>>>> date.
>>>>>>>> Finally, investigate whether or not your local independent living
>>>>>>>> center
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> advocates that will speak on your behalf.
>>>>>>>> Note: some colleges and universities have laptops or net books that
>>>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>>>> students can reserve from there DSS office for use during class.  In
>>>>>>>> regard
>>>>>>>> to readers or reading services, some organizations for the blind as
>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> community centers have people from the community who volunteer who
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> assist you.  In addition, check with your college or university to
>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> you can post an add requesting for volunteers to assist you when
>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the essence and your accommodations/equipment is not available.  I
>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> following since it is a reality.  Note: I do not want to discourage
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> scare
>>>>>>>> you; however, throughout your college career, you will learn and see
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> you will need to liquidate all avenues since many times you will
>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>> faulty services and accommodations while meeting important deadlines
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>> other student.  You will need to be strong and always be your own
>>>>>>>> advocate
>>>>>>>> while never losing focus with your agenda.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] DSB delaying needed equipment
>>>>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 11:30 AM
>>>>>>>>> Hi Jewel,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I see online that North Carolina just started a new fiscal
>>>>>>>>> year.  This is
>>>>>>>>> bad, because this is when agencies can afford to lapse a
>>>>>>>>> little.  If I were
>>>>>>>>> you, and taking your budget into consideration, this is my
>>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>>> recommendation:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Take Justin's suggestion and go straight to the director
>>>>>>>>> of that field
>>>>>>>>> office.  It's not your job to ease this counselor into
>>>>>>>>> her new position.
>>>>>>>>> Your first priority is getting what you need to be ready
>>>>>>>>> for school.  Put
>>>>>>>>> your communications to the director in writing.  Say
>>>>>>>>> in your first e-mail
>>>>>>>>> that you will follow up via telephone in a few days to talk
>>>>>>>>> about what can
>>>>>>>>> be done.  Later, after your phone call, send another
>>>>>>>>> e-mail summarizing what
>>>>>>>>> was talked about.  Always keep a written record of
>>>>>>>>> your communications.  In
>>>>>>>>> the letter you should give a brief summary of the events to
>>>>>>>>> this point, but
>>>>>>>>> I would spend more time listing the equipment you need and
>>>>>>>>> a good
>>>>>>>>> justification for why you need them.  This may
>>>>>>>>> somewhat minimize the need
>>>>>>>>> for an assessment if you can give concrete reasons for why
>>>>>>>>> the products are
>>>>>>>>> required.  Also, rank your products in order of most
>>>>>>>>> important.  The Victor
>>>>>>>>> Stream, for example, may be a necessity, but it could
>>>>>>>>> probably go near or at
>>>>>>>>> the bottom since your top priority is the ability to take
>>>>>>>>> notes in class.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. Locate the individual or office that handles technology
>>>>>>>>> assessments.  The
>>>>>>>>> more people you have inquiring into your case, the better,
>>>>>>>>> and even if they
>>>>>>>>> say they need to hear from your counselor, when your
>>>>>>>>> counselor calls the
>>>>>>>>> people will be familiar with you and have more of an
>>>>>>>>> incentive to act.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. Talk to your NFB affiliate president.  He or she
>>>>>>>>> may know of someone
>>>>>>>>> working in the agency who can look into your case.
>>>>>>>>> The affiliate should
>>>>>>>>> also prove to be a good advocate on your behalf.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4. Locate your nearest Lions Club.  They may be able
>>>>>>>>> to step in and help
>>>>>>>>> with the cost of a netbook.  If you can get that, you
>>>>>>>>> can use one of the
>>>>>>>>> free or reasonably priced screen readers while you wait for
>>>>>>>>> your other
>>>>>>>>> technology to arrive.  The main thing is to get you
>>>>>>>>> something for the first
>>>>>>>>> day of class, and I think your Lions Club or Rotary Club
>>>>>>>>> should be able to
>>>>>>>>> generate $300 on your behalf.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is, at least, a start.  I'm in a bit of a rush
>>>>>>>>> but can offer more later
>>>>>>>>> if you're still in a bind.  Hopefully others will
>>>>>>>>> chime in as well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>>>>>>>>> their sleeves,
>>>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at
>>>>>>>>> all."--Sam Ewing
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Jewel S.
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:06 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] DSB delaying needed equipment
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am having serious issues with DSB here in North Carolina.
>>>>>>>>> I begin
>>>>>>>>> classes August 16, and have been working toward getting
>>>>>>>>> some needed
>>>>>>>>> equipment. This equipment is a netbook with JAWS, a
>>>>>>>>> refreshable
>>>>>>>>> Braille display, a VictorStream Reader, a Juliette
>>>>>>>>> embosser, a
>>>>>>>>> scanner, OpenBook scanning program and Dusxbury
>>>>>>>>> (spelling?), and JAWS
>>>>>>>>> for my home computer. I have been working very hard on my
>>>>>>>>> side to get
>>>>>>>>> this done in time for classes. However, I was reassigned
>>>>>>>>> recently to a
>>>>>>>>> new VR counselor (by new, I mean green...this is her first
>>>>>>>>> position).
>>>>>>>>> She did not even know who the assessment person *was*, let
>>>>>>>>> alone how
>>>>>>>>> to do an assessment referral, so after I saw one person for
>>>>>>>>> review of
>>>>>>>>> my home computer and basic needs, she did nothing with
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> information, despite him having stated that I needed an
>>>>>>>>> assessment
>>>>>>>>> with a particular computer teacher. It was not until I
>>>>>>>>> asked him what
>>>>>>>>> the next step was again that he said that my counselor
>>>>>>>>> should have set
>>>>>>>>> up the assessment (when I had talked to him the first time,
>>>>>>>>> he had
>>>>>>>>> said that my VR counselor would see the referral sent and I
>>>>>>>>> needed to
>>>>>>>>> just wait for the referral to go through).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, because of my counselor's delay in getting the
>>>>>>>>> referral done, the
>>>>>>>>> paperwork has not even been submitted for my equipment. At
>>>>>>>>> first, they
>>>>>>>>> told me it would take two to three weeks to get the
>>>>>>>>> equipment. Then
>>>>>>>>> they said one month. Now they are saying that it could take
>>>>>>>>> up to two
>>>>>>>>> months!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Classes start August 16, and I do not have any of the
>>>>>>>>> equipment I
>>>>>>>>> need. The only method of note-taking I have (other than
>>>>>>>>> getting a
>>>>>>>>> notetaker to take notes for me, which I'd rather not) is my
>>>>>>>>> slate and
>>>>>>>>> stylus. With my physical problems, I can only use a slate
>>>>>>>>> for a few
>>>>>>>>> lines at a time before my wrist and arm begin to hurt very
>>>>>>>>> badly, so I
>>>>>>>>> don't see that as a possibility at all. I do not even have
>>>>>>>>> a voice
>>>>>>>>> recorder, though I am considering whether I have the funds
>>>>>>>>> to purchase
>>>>>>>>> one myself (I am on a very tight budget these days).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have suggested the solution of renting a laptop until my
>>>>>>>>> equipment
>>>>>>>>> comes in. However, my counselor seems to have taken that to
>>>>>>>>> mean that
>>>>>>>>> I am willing to buy a used laptop on my own. She has
>>>>>>>>> suggested places
>>>>>>>>> to purchase used laptops and said she will look into it
>>>>>>>>> also. When I
>>>>>>>>> asked her whether this would take the place of the laptop
>>>>>>>>> promised me
>>>>>>>>> by DSB, she didn't answer directly but told me that the
>>>>>>>>> laptop I would
>>>>>>>>> purchase would last me throughout my curriculum. But if
>>>>>>>>> it's used, how
>>>>>>>>> can she be so sure? And how does she expect me to pay for
>>>>>>>>> such a
>>>>>>>>> laptop?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is this appropriate action on the behlaf of my counselor?
>>>>>>>>> SWhat should
>>>>>>>>> I expect to happen? If she is not doing things properly,
>>>>>>>>> who should I
>>>>>>>>> bring this up with?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I said, classes start in a few weeks. I do not have a
>>>>>>>>> way to record
>>>>>>>>> the classes, type notes, read my books in class, or
>>>>>>>>> complete
>>>>>>>>> worksheets in class. I will basically be stuck relying on
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> students to take notes for me, read exercises to me, and
>>>>>>>>> will not be
>>>>>>>>> able to participate when the class reads the books. I might
>>>>>>>>> as well
>>>>>>>>> not even attend class, for all I will be able to do! From
>>>>>>>>> what DSB is
>>>>>>>>> telling me, it will be halfway through the semester before
>>>>>>>>> I get any
>>>>>>>>> of my needed equipment. Is the renting of a laptop a
>>>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>>>>> accommodation while I wait, or should I drop these classes
>>>>>>>>> and wait
>>>>>>>>> until next semester? I will not be able to participate
>>>>>>>>> appropriately
>>>>>>>>> in class without even a laptop, and my grades will be
>>>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>>>> effected by this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any advice, please?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>>>> Jewel Shuping
>>>>>>>>> Wake Tech Community College
>>>>>>>>> Raleigh, NC
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>>>>>>> Email:
>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>>>>> Website:
>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Arielle Silverman
>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>> Email:
>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>> Website:
>> www.nabslink.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org