[nabs-l] Blindness and Identity
Corbb O'Connor
corbbo at gmail.com
Sun Mar 28 05:27:33 UTC 2010
I really hope there's a better term than "mixed" for a blind-sighted
relationship, but at this hour I can't come up with one and will use
it for the purposes of brevity!
I used to think that I couldn't see myself marrying another blind
person. I used to think about all the practical implications: well
what if I want to travel in a remote place for a vacation, and the
only way to get around is via car? Or how will I raise kids if I can't
watch them in order to give them independence? And the list goes on.
That's all in past tense for a reason.
Thanks to what all of you in the NFB have taught me over the last many
years, I now see blindness or vision as a non-issue for relationships.
There are far more important characteristics to think about. On the
parenting issue, Melissa & Mark Riccobono's teleconference clarified
many issues for me and erased many of the misconceptions I held about
my own abilities. I've also seen lots of blind-blind relationships
(and marriages!) and how effective they can be...just as effective as
sighted-sighted or "mixed" relationships...and that's changed my
opinion.
So, Jedi, I believe that a predisposition by a blind person to think
that he/she wants to marry a sighted person can be a misconception
about the abilities of the blind. I don't think it has anything to do
with social skills -- for me, it was about the practical implications
of living in a sighted world as a blind person.
-Corbb
On Mar 27, 2010, at 9:08 PM, Jedi wrote:
Arielle,
Any guesses as to why there seems to be an attitutde that mixed
relationships are better than all blind relationships? I was wondering
if it has to do with this idea that since the blind inherently have
lesser social skills, then it would not be a good idea for a blind
person to mingle with other blind people if they wanted to learn
better social skills. I agree that that's not true at all, but I was
just wondering if this couldn't be one explanation for the attitude
you describe.
Respectfully,
Jedi
Original message:
> Hi all,
> With all due respect to the discussions thus far regarding the
> components of identity and culture, I'd like to steer the conversation
> a little closer to what we originally started with when we were
> talking about belonging, or lack thereof, in the sighted world,
> joining student clubs, etc. I am curious--Is there such a thing as
> "over-identifying" with blindness or spending too much time with blind
> people? Does spending time with blind people necessarily take away
> from how much time and energy you can put into relationships with the
> sighted? Or, is it possible to simultaneously feel a strong connection
> with other blind people and still engage in productive connections
> with sighted people at work, and have healthy social connections with
> sighted people as well?
> I tend to take the latter view, and am a little saddened when people
> make comments to the effect that we should spend less time with other
> blind people in order to achieve our goal of integration, as if the
> two objectives are mutually exclusive. Sometimes I think people (blind
> and sighted alike) have the implicit assumption that relationships
> with sighted people are somehow superior to relationships we have with
> the blind, and that it's to our advantage to, for example, avoid
> spending all our time at NFB meetings, or try not to work in the
> blindness field on principle, or to only date sighted people. Of
> course, people differ in the extremity of these views. But I do think
> it's entirely possible and healthy to juggle a strong "blind identity"
> with the other identities and connections we have in the world,
> without taking away from either one.
> I'm interested to hear your views about this, but I'd like to close
> with a concrete example. When I was in high school and college, most
> of my close friends were blind. I often felt, as many of you have
> described, that I could only sustain casual relationships with sighted
> people, but that I could only feel the deep, reciprocal connections I
> had with other blind people. When I started graduate school, after
> receiving blindness training at LCB and being a member and leader in
> NABS for five years, I finally began to perceive that my fellow
> students, who were all sighted, didn't care much about my blindness
> and were for the most part able to treat me like anyone else. I have
> been dating a sighted guy for the past year, which is something I
> never thought would happen, and with him I feel the same kind of
> reciprocal intimacy that I thought I could only have with other blind
> people. My point in disclosing all that is that I honestly don't think
> I would have reached this level of confidence and belonging in my
> sighted community if I hadn't had the strong, affirming relationships
> that I had for so many years with my blind friends. Around other blind
> people I felt normal and capable, and was able to become a
> reciprocating partner and a leader. I had to be able to do those
> things and practice them over time before I could go into the
> uncertainty of a new sighted community with the right social skills
> and confidence to integrate and build new connections, including
> finding my boyfriend. It's just something to think about.
> Arielle
> On 3/27/10, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This will be the fourth time that I've clarified what I said, but
>> what I
>> said keeps getting distorted, so I'll try one more time.
>> Jedi said,
>> two men would insist that I perceive myself differently because I
>> can give
>> birth.
>> I've read every message on this subject, and I didn't read one man,
>> let
>> alone two, say anything like that.
>> How on earth could anyone know how you perceive yourself? I
>> certainly don't,
>> and I have never said that I did. For the record, I have no idea
>> how Jedi
>> perceives herself. I only know that she says that she doesn't give
>> much
>> thought to her ability to give birth, and I don't question that at
>> all. But
>> that is just not the issue that is being discussed. How you perceive
>> yourself has nothing to do with this. Identity is much more than
>> just how
>> you perceive yourself. Your ability to perceive, how you perceive,
>> what you
>> perceive, these are all already influenced by your identity. So
>> whether or
>> not you think about a particular feature of yourself does not alone
>> determine whether it is or is not a part of your identity.
>> I truly regret bringing up the ability to give birth. There is way
>> too much
>> bagage that comes with a discussion of that topic, and I clearly
>> offended
>> some people, which I had no intention of doing. The fact that I'm
>> a man
>> makes my bringing it up all the more problematic for some. I tried
>> to
>> choose my words carefully, including the clarification that I was
>> in no way
>> suggesting that women are defined by this ability, but even this
>> wasn't
>> enough to avoid the bagage, which is fine, I get that. It was a bad
>> example, but the disappointing thing is that so much energy has
>> been focused
>> on this one example that it has over-shadowed what could have been
>> a deeper
>> discussion of blindness and identity. That is unfortunate and
>> makes me
>> really wish I had never mentioned it.
>> No hard feelings I hope.
>> Marc
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>> Behalf Of Jedi
>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 4:46 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness and Identity
>> Briley,
>> I'm glad you said something because it took me a while to understand
>> why I replied so snarkily last time. I realized that I felt incensed
>> that two men would insist that I perceive myself differently
>> because I
>> can give birth. To me, it was as bad as if some sighted person got on
>> list and told us all that our lack of eyesight shapes how we see
>> ourselves. Some would say yes, and others would say no. For those who
>> would say no, I think we'd feel pretty frustrated because it would be
>> almost like that sighted person was telling us that because they
>> saw us
>> differently because we're blind, so should we regardless if we do or
>> not. What frustrated me most is that I twice said that, in my
>> experience of not being a mother, I didn't think much about my
>> ability
>> to have children and yet I felt argued with as though someone who saw
>> themselves as having more authority on the topic, a man, had the
>> final
>> authority on how I felt about myself as a woman. It was so
>> frustrating.
>> And you're quite right that men probably don't think about their
>> ability to be part of the procreation process any more or less than
>> we
>> do. Same goes for sighted people. I've heard sighted people say that
>> they don't realize how much they take for granted, and that's quite
>> true. They mean to say that they feel sorry for us, but the fact is
>> that they really have no idea how much privilege they have in society
>> just as many in a given "superior" (in quotes) class don't. Thanks
>> again for your comments.
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>> Original message:
>>> Jedi,
>>> I thought you handled the issue of giving birth quite capably. I
>>> am not
>>> a mother yet, so no, I don't think about my ability to pop out
>>> kids as
>>> a big part of who I am... or really ponder it as a part of
>>> identity at
>>> all. Do you men see your ability to participate in making children
>>> as a
>>> part of your identity? Probably not. So, it is semi chauvinist of
>>> you
>>> to assume we are attached to our uterus as a part of us that gives
>>> us
>>> self worth.
>>> Briley
>>> On Mar 27, 2010, at 3:55 AM, Jedi wrote:
>>>> Well, if we want to get down to brass tacks, we can all say that we
>>>> will never know just how our being is affects our perceptions,
>>>> but the
>>>> bottom line still lies at the fact that our perception of our
>>>> beingness
>>>> is largely determine by what our culture teaches us about it, and
>>>> identity is the presentation of how we respond to those teachings
>>>> in
>>>> our interactions with ourselves and others.
>>>> I think it's interesting that two men have been interested in
>>>> whether
>>>> or not I see myself differently because I can give birth yet no
>>>> women
>>>> have weighed in on the subject. I also think they're more
>>>> interesting
>>>> in my birthing abilities than I am. Well gentlemen, you're
>>>> welcome to
>>>> those abilities so long as you're willing to take the identity that
>>>> comes with them. *tongue in cheek*
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> The point is that without ever having had the experience of
>>>>> being a man,
>> you
>>>>> cannot say for sure that your being a woman does or does not
>>>>> have an
>> impact
>>>>> on how you see yourself or experience the world. I suspect it
>>>>> does, but
>>>>> without any basis for comparison, you can't say. Just as my
>>>>> being blind
>> from
>>>>> birth prohibits me from determining whether or not or to what
>>>>> degree my
>>>>> blindness affects how I view myself and experience the world. My
>>>>> gut
>> feeling
>>>>> is that my blindness has a fairly profound affect on at least a
>> significant
>>>>> subset of the things I experience and the way in which I
>>>>> experience
>> them.
>>>>> Blindness is absolutely part of my identity, as is my height,
>>>>> skin color
>> and
>>>>> love of the Chicago Cubs. Your identity is just an exhaustive
>>>>> list of
>> all of
>>>>> the characteristics and attributes which make a particular
>>>>> person the
>>>>> particular person that they are.
>>>>> To what degree I identify myself as blind or identify with the
>>>>> greater
>>>>> community of blind people is a completely separate question from
>>>>> that of
>>>>> whether or not blindness is part of my identity.
>>>>> I don't think blindness, strictly defined, is a social
>>>>> construct, while
>> I
>>>>> think the concept of disability is. I'm sure that to articulate my
>> reasons
>>>>> for feeling this way would require more time than I am willing
>>>>> to put
>> into
>>>>> it now, but that is my gut feeling.
>>>>> Thought I'd throw my two cents into this interesting discussion.
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> Sean
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> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone: 602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
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