[nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions

Wed Oct 13 05:00:01 UTC 2010

Hi Kerri,

First of all, I wouldn't give up on your bus system's website quite
yet. Many bus systems have inaccessible route maps on their websites,
but they also have schedules in table form, or "trip planner" features
where you can type in your location and destination and it'll tell you
how to get there. At the very least, the map for the route you want to
use should probably have a table listing what time the bus gets to
each stop. You can navigate tables using the JAWS command
"Control-alt-arrow" (i.e. control-alt-right arrow to move right,
control-alt-up arrow to go up, etc.) if you use JAWS. I used to think
the schedule tables for Denver RTD were totally inaccessible until a
friend taught me about that. So, it's worth exploring a bit more.

Second, if you go to
maps.google.com
and click the "Get Directions" link, you can type in your origin
address and destination address and check "public transit" as the type
of directions you want (it's a combobox you'll see after you enter
your destination address). I'm not sure if the public transit feature
works everywhere, but it's worth a try and the bus directions it gives
are usually pretty accurate. To find out the address of the place
you're going, simply type the name of the place (i.e. "University Town
Center" and your city name into Google and an address should pop up.

Third, if these methods don't give you a clear idea of where to get on
the bus near your house, I'd suggest calling and simply asking, "Where
is the bus stop by [cross-streets for your apartment complex]? It
sounds like you did this already and were told the stop was by the
light for the highway. You can then ask "On which side of the highway
is it?" or "Which direction do I need to go to get to [destination]?
This will give you an idea of whether or not you'll have to cross the
highway. It might be worth taking a friend with you the first time to
be sure you find the pole or bench that denotes the bus stop-either a
sighted or blind friend as long as they know where the actual stop is.
Alternatively, you can simply walk up and down the block where the
stop is supposed to be, use a wide arc and look for a pole or bench.
If it turns out you need to cross the highway to get there, you may
want to practice crossing a few times with said person (or an O&M
instructor if you have one) so you can get used to the traffic pattern
and identify the appropriate sound cue indicating it's safe to cross.
I think big highways are often a lot scarier to sighted people who can
see all the cars than they really need to be in terms of safety. In
other words, while busier streets are more intimidating, they can also
be easier to cross safely because they will provide a lot of reliable
auditory feedback. It may be the case at this light, for instance,
that it is safe to cross when you hear all traffic stop-which, with a
highway, should be pretty obvious after a couple of practice tries.

As for bus depots, they can also be a little intimidating, but there
are usually lots of people around to ask "where is the stop for the
[bus number]? You can also ask the driver on your first bus to direct
you to the stop for the second, or if they all pull up to the same
curb, just approach the front of each bus as it pulls up and ask what
line it is. I usually avoid bus depots late at night for the safety
reasons you describe, but during the day when there are lots of people
around and buses coming and going, this shouldn't be a big concern.

It sounds like your metroplex is large, but definitely navigable by
pedestrians. For a blind pedestrian it can be a little tricky, but not
impossible. You may have to ask a few different people for directions
in order to find the place you're looking for, but it's definitely
possible if you have the time and especially if you want to get the
travel practice. You should definitely find out the names of the major
streets bordering the metroplex and the addresses of the places you
want to go (i.e. Starbucks, Olive Garden, etc.) so you have a general
idea of where the places are located relative to one another, and then
just ask questions.

Happy traveling!
Arielle

On 10/12/10, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Anita,
> Good suggestions.  A few questions.
> I haven't used Google Maps.  By its nature it has a map with it; so how do
> you get to the site and does it give user friendly pedestrian directions?
> Will it give directions in terms of blocks or for cars, the miles?
>
> Yes arriving ten minutes early is a good idea.
> I'd say call them over sending a facebook message; you'll get more out of a
> conversation.  Its a shame you don't have a good mobility instructor Kerri.
> I learned about the bus system, how to call them, what questions to ask,
> addresses, and landmarks from the O&M instructor I had.
>
> You need to give the bus rep some info.  An address is fine I believe but
> they don't need to know its the apartment.
> Another idea is to get the street your complex is on and ask this way.
> "Sally, what bus runs on Elm street?"
> While on the bus its true they have radios but I thought they're off while
> talking to customers.
> Whether its an address or something else you need to give them the stop you
> want to get off.  This is probably done by intersections.  But each bus
> system is different.
> So say "Driver, I need to get off at 4th and Clark street."  Some stops are
> at landmarks or right at malls.  In that case state that.  "Driver I need to
> depart at the Crabtree mall."
> Often buses run in thirty minute intervals or on the hour.  If you'll use a
> bus frequently get to know its schedule.
> If you live in a city you might be lucky and buses may run more like every
> 20 minutes!
>
> Kerri some systems such as the DC metro system have an automated phone
> system.  You might check if yours has this; probably not but its worth
> asking.
> This phone system allows you to state your bus number.  Then the computer
> system checks and says when the next bus is coming.  It also says if there's
> any bus disruptions on a different menu.
>
> I also thought of something; if you have lots of questions including basic
> info, it may be worth setting up an appointment with a bus company
> representative to ask these questions.  You don't want to tie up the phone
> line a long time on their end but you also want to get this information.  If
> you show interest in their system, they may be happy to be accomodating.
> Accomodations are making the website accessible, announcing stops, providing
> basic info in accessible formats and providing accessible fair machines.
> The metro system here has information in braille and large print plus many
> phone features anyone can use including those with disabilities as long as
> you can speak clearly.
> Some companies just are not aware of blind customers and their needs.
>
> Ashley
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> First, I mean once you are used to the bus route and going all over the
>> place, you will then have the information of where you are waiting and can
>>
>> communicate this to the driver whereas you do not know now simply because
>> you are not familiar with the routes.  Remember, you may not always be
>> leaving from home, and so your waiting area could be downtown somewhere.
>> In a big city, you may even be able to wait at a bus stop and not need to
>> worry with even calling, but in my area, there are not many bus stops;
>> people just flag the bus down in most spots.  And, the nice thing about
>> the mall in my area is that the bus arrives at a certain time, and it is
>> easy to get to, and so I know at 30 after the hour I need to be there
>> waiting.  Just FYI, you always want to be there about ten minutes before
>> the scheduled arrival time of the bus so you do not miss it by accident.
>> Here's a question for you: is your goal to ride the bus, or is your goal
>> specificly to travel on the bus from your home?  Another option might be
>> for you to cab (if available) to the mall and then take the bus home or,
>> if possible, to another location that is easy to arrive to.  I don't mean
>> to do this on a regular basis; I just mean for a first try.  Maybe,
>> someone sighted could meet you, such as your mother, when you get off the
>> bus, but you could insist that you walk home without holding her arm so
>> you can learn the route, or you could just have someone walk with you to
>> and from the bus pickup/drop off spot near your home to familiarize you
>> with it before you take the bus at all.  Again, I would explore on my own,
>>
>> but if you are not an experienced traveler, it is okay to bring along
>> company.  Just make sure the company is someone who will let you walk on
>> your own and that the person is not too overhelpful or too afraid you will
>>
>> hurt yourself.  Just another thought.  I agree with Ashley that is none of
>>
>> their business where you live; perhaps, it would be a better idea for you
>> to ask someone or for you to use Google maps to learn the names of the
>> street in your area.  For example, google directions from your house to a
>> place you know is close by.  You will hear google say something like head
>> west toward Bell Street or whatever, and then you would know the name of
>> the cross street.  Or, if you already know the name of the highway with
>> the red light, you could reference that with the bus.  The bus people
>> speak over radios that can be heard by many people, and it is probably not
>>
>> a good idea to have your address broadcast over the system just for safety
>>
>> reasons even though you do live in a gated apartment. I am not trying to
>> scare you; I am just pointing out that you might want to avoid using your
>> address.  In fact, my bus system does not want your address, and I think
>> there is a law or maybe company policy that you cannot give them specific
>> directions like that.  Also, do you use the bus for people with
>> disabilities in your area?  You do have to schedule this, but if you are
>> not used to taking buses, this might be a first good step as it will take
>> you from door to door and you can familiarize yourself with the
>> environments, such as the layout of the mall, before you figure out how to
>>
>> city bus to it.  Just an idea.  I am certainly not trying to tell you not
>> to take the bus.  But again, asking a buddy to come along for your first
>> time is okay to do.  BTW, transfering is not a big deal.  You just ask for
>>
>> a transfer slip when you get on the bus and give it to the next bus
>> driver. If you transfer at a central location where all buses come
>> together, you can ask the driver if the bus you are looking for, such as
>> the green line, is in front of you or even if it has arrived yet.  Also,
>> you can ask the driver to radio the driver for the bus to which you are
>> transfering to tell them you are there, but still be certain to ask nearby
>>
>> people which color line of the bus is coming up as I do this all of the
>> time, and it is beneficial.  I would call the bus company instead of
>> facebooking them alone.  It is okay to facebook or send them a message,
>> but you will still probably need to call to clarify information with them.
>>
>> Of course, you will know this for certain when you do the calling.  I am
>> thinking if you call, that this is really your first big step because you
>> have made human contact with them.  You may have done this in the past,
>> but now you are nervous, and calling them now will mean you can succeed at
>>
>> one step--finding out the bus route.  If you have a scanner, you can
>> probably scan this bus route in, and if you are a student at the college
>> you mention, it probably has a scanner in its disability office that you
>> may be able to use.  To hire a reader, put up an ad at the college.  This
>> is if you need a reader for a steady amount of time each month, such as
>> ten hours.  You wouldn't want to do that for just a one-time occurrence.
>> Just some tips.  Sorry if I am so talkative.  I'm in school, and I'm too
>> tired to do much editing and deleting extra information at this point.
>> Smile.  Again, good luck and have fun.  Anita
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>; "National Association
>> of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions
>>
>>
>>> Hi Ashley, Anita, and All:
>>>
>>> First, Anita, I can't just call them and say "I'm waiting at this
>>> stop" as I don't know where the stop is from my apartment complex. I
>>> want to say it's at the light but not for certain. The website is
>>> inaccessible so I can't check there. So, I kind of have to call them
>>> and explain the situation and where I live.
>>>
>>> Also Anita, Morgantown is a college town and since the majority of the
>>> students can drive the bus caters to the freshman students. I do not
>>> live in the student area so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to
>>> transfer or take two buses to get anywhere. I don't think  I can just
>>> take just one bus to one location as it's weird here and you have to
>>> connect.
>>>
>>> I think I'd like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover for my first
>>> trip. I am on the same side of town as the mall so maybe just maybe I
>>> may be able to go on one bus but I'll have to check.
>>>
>>> Ashley, I live in a gated apartment complex...Don't I need to let them
>>> know what complex it is and where it is so they can tell me where the
>>> stop is?
>>>
>>> Also, our buses do not have directions like westbound...they are
>>> colored lines...the orange line, the blue and gold connector, the
>>> purple line, the brown line...they have no directional names what so
>>> ever.
>>>
>>> Since they are on Facebook...would it be okay if I messaged them since
>>> I'm better at writing than talking and can think out my questions
>>> better when writing? Or do I have to call? If I message them then I
>>> can copy/make notes on the time, any transfers, and location of stops
>>> as needed.
>>>
>>> Also, I'll ask if my friend could come down but you have to
>>> understand...it's my state president and her significant other and
>>> they are middle-aged so...I'll ask them but I don't know?
>>>
>>> I tried to talk to my mother to see if she could help me look at the
>>> schedule and map but she said I could just call...I don't know where
>>> else to get help from. Many of the sighted people I know have the
>>> typical feel sorry for the blind girl attitude so I don't know if
>>> asking a sighted friend to help me would be effective but I will try.
>>>
>>> Also since I shouldn't need to use the deviated route service to go to
>>> the mall I guess to keep things simple I'll leave the deviated route
>>> out for now.
>>>
>>> I don't currently have a reader nor know how to hire one though I've
>>> read about it.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Kerri
>>>
>>> On 10/12/10, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Kerri,
>>>> Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic and
>>>> safe.  If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no sidewalks
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>> built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially since
>>>> you
>>>> say you're a beginning traveler.  My views of independence may be a
>>>> little
>>>> different here.  But I say independence means going where you want to go
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>> when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for
>>>> assistant when needed.
>>>> Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really
>>>> want
>>>> to go to this town center?
>>>>
>>>> I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that.  Generally
>>>> though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop.  Sit near
>>>> the
>>>> driver and you might have to remind him/her.  If you need to transfer
>>>> most
>>>> bus companies have a bus
>>>> transfer pass.  So get one before leaving your first bus.  Be sure to
>>>> ask
>>>> what bus it is and where its going
>>>> when you board your second bus.  You don't want to board the wrong bus!
>>>>
>>>> As to the bus company and questions, its up to you.  But no I would not
>>>> recommend stating where you live.  Just explain you want to get from
>>>> point A
>>>> to B and give the addresses.  Then yes you could explain you're blind
>>>> and
>>>> ask about the deviated route if you wanted.
>>>> Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live although
>>>>
>>>> if
>>>> they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably
>>>> figure its your home.  But its not the company's business to know where
>>>> you
>>>> live.
>>>> I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like yours
>>>>
>>>> is.
>>>> But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and
>>>> repeat
>>>> it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood
>>>> it.
>>>> Another option is to record the information while on the phone.  I get
>>>> this
>>>> info:
>>>> 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the 38B
>>>> westbound.
>>>> Each bus has two directions so the direction is important.
>>>> 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination.
>>>> 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll tell
>>>> me.
>>>> Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my
>>>> end
>>>> stop?
>>>> 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid for?
>>>>
>>>> Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you
>>>> and
>>>> describe major landmarks.
>>>> Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when
>>>> to
>>>> get it.  Independence is being in control of your choices.
>>>> So print out the map and go over it with someone.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope
>>>>> these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one
>>>>> post.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the
>>>>> bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having
>>>>> is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving
>>>>> students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live
>>>>> downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do
>>>>> not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the
>>>>> bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus
>>>>> depots.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the
>>>>> bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first
>>>>> street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My
>>>>> apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't
>>>>> know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On
>>>>> top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this
>>>>> complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives
>>>>> in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before
>>>>> tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they
>>>>> will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you
>>>>> up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere
>>>>> simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling
>>>>> them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first
>>>>> time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with
>>>>> disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system?
>>>>>
>>>>> Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest
>>>>> Village
>>>>> Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the
>>>>> Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to
>>>>> take, and what times the lines run?
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to
>>>>> apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking
>>>>> general questions and see where I get from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there
>>>>> anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has
>>>>> taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but
>>>>> I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so
>>>>> is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain
>>>>> items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here
>>>>> and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get
>>>>> out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach.
>>>>> HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or
>>>>> announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to
>>>>> do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let
>>>>> me know when we get to the line I need to get off at.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out
>>>>> in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a
>>>>> description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or
>>>>> location of each stop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and
>>>>> Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to
>>>>> deviate for construction or something like that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that
>>>>> I wanted to get your opinions on.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have an area with
>>>>> sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town
>>>>> Center. I initially was under
>>>>> the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to.
>>>>> So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my
>>>>> first bus trip.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian
>>>>> friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long
>>>>> hill
>>>>> and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane
>>>>> highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some
>>>>> research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they
>>>>> are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could
>>>>> have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another
>>>>> such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been
>>>>> told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This
>>>>> shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club,
>>>>> Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe
>>>>> store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis
>>>>> Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden
>>>>> Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off
>>>>> at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one
>>>>> place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get
>>>>> groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie
>>>>> at the movie theater.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done
>>>>> but they wouldn't be as efficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider
>>>>> pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area
>>>>> and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe
>>>>> have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this
>>>>> area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no
>>>>> point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd
>>>>> be too much work/reconstruction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my
>>>>> griping or does action need to be taken?
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a
>>>>> movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I
>>>>> could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but
>>>>> for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area
>>>>> and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but
>>>>> get to practice cane travel as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this
>>>>> University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't
>>>>> pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one
>>>>> store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the
>>>>> restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about
>>>>> this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice
>>>>> travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live
>>>>> and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate
>>>>> them with ease?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want
>>>>> to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University
>>>>> town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to
>>>>> the mall instead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org