[nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions

[Anita Adkins]

First, get to it by typing in www.google.com if it is not your homepage. 
You might be able to add a forward slash followed by the word maps, but 
haven't tried this yet because Google happens to be my prefered home page. 
On this page, there is a link that says maps, which you will press enter on. 
When the page loads, it will have an edit box, and you will type your start 
destination followed by your end destination like this: Valley View 
Apartments, Frostburg, MD to Country Club Mall, Lavale, MD
Use the commas as I have them, but of course, use your own locations.  You 
could also type a street number such as 93 West Boxing Lane, (I made that 
up).  You would put a comma after the street name also.  It is very usable. 
In fact, I used to learn how to navigate the town I am in independently 
without the assistance of an O&M instructor.  I also used other tools to 
help me with this.  For example, I babysat 40 hours per week in Cumberland, 
and so I had to take the bus to and from that job and also a cab from the 
college over there to here late at night because my area is not big and 
buses do not run late at night.  While in whichever type of transportation, 
I asked the driver to tell me the cross streets as we came to them, and I 
wrote them down.  I moved here because I was transfering to the college here 
in town, and I also used Google to help me learn how to get to the campus of 
this school, and I also asked people that I knew about the area and the bus 
and cab drivers.  But, back to Google Maps.  You can have it provide walking 
direcetions, bicycling directions, driving directions and probably more.  I 
believe it is automatically set for driving directions.  To test it, you can 
do like I did and ask it how to go somewhere you already know how to get to 
because you will be able to determine its accuracy.  Also, I will ask it for 
driving and then for walking sometimes if I am learning a new place because 
if walking has you head and driving has you head east, I can learn the cross 
streets on either side of me like that.  Gotta run for school, and so sorry 
can't go into this further now.  But, anyone can feel free to ask more 
questions, and please ignore my mistakes throughout this email.  Thanks. 
Sorry, just looked, it gives miles.  This is why I build on my knowledge by 
first determining at least the name of one place on each block because then 
I could learn the connecting streets.  I wish it did tell you blocks and the 
names in between.  It is in beta, and so maybe this could be suggested by 
someone.  However, I have learned that a block in my type of a city is about 
1/10 of a mile, and so you may be able to figure it out for your city.  In 
small cities, blocks are shorter than in big cities, or so it seems to me. 
Gotta rush out of here.  Have a great day.  Anita
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions


> Hi Anita,
> Good suggestions.  A few questions.
> I haven't used Google Maps.  By its nature it has a map with it; so how do 
> you get to the site and does it give user friendly pedestrian directions?
> Will it give directions in terms of blocks or for cars, the miles?
>
> Yes arriving ten minutes early is a good idea.
> I'd say call them over sending a facebook message; you'll get more out of 
> a conversation.  Its a shame you don't have a good mobility instructor 
> Kerri. I learned about the bus system, how to call them, what questions to 
> ask, addresses, and landmarks from the O&M instructor I had.
>
> You need to give the bus rep some info.  An address is fine I believe but 
> they don't need to know its the apartment.
> Another idea is to get the street your complex is on and ask this way. 
> "Sally, what bus runs on Elm street?"
> While on the bus its true they have radios but I thought they're off while 
> talking to customers.
> Whether its an address or something else you need to give them the stop 
> you want to get off.  This is probably done by intersections.  But each 
> bus system is different.
> So say "Driver, I need to get off at 4th and Clark street."  Some stops 
> are at landmarks or right at malls.  In that case state that.  "Driver I 
> need to depart at the Crabtree mall."
> Often buses run in thirty minute intervals or on the hour.  If you'll use 
> a bus frequently get to know its schedule.
> If you live in a city you might be lucky and buses may run more like every 
> 20 minutes!
>
> Kerri some systems such as the DC metro system have an automated phone 
> system.  You might check if yours has this; probably not but its worth 
> asking.
> This phone system allows you to state your bus number.  Then the computer 
> system checks and says when the next bus is coming.  It also says if 
> there's any bus disruptions on a different menu.
>
> I also thought of something; if you have lots of questions including basic 
> info, it may be worth setting up an appointment with a bus company 
> representative to ask these questions.  You don't want to tie up the phone 
> line a long time on their end but you also want to get this information. 
> If you show interest in their system, they may be happy to be 
> accomodating. Accomodations are making the website accessible, announcing 
> stops, providing basic info in accessible formats and providing accessible 
> fair machines.
> The metro system here has information in braille and large print plus many 
> phone features anyone can use including those with disabilities as long as 
> you can speak clearly.
> Some companies just are not aware of blind customers and their needs.
>
> Ashley
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> First, I mean once you are used to the bus route and going all over the 
>> place, you will then have the information of where you are waiting and 
>> can communicate this to the driver whereas you do not know now simply 
>> because you are not familiar with the routes.  Remember, you may not 
>> always be leaving from home, and so your waiting area could be downtown 
>> somewhere. In a big city, you may even be able to wait at a bus stop and 
>> not need to worry with even calling, but in my area, there are not many 
>> bus stops; people just flag the bus down in most spots.  And, the nice 
>> thing about the mall in my area is that the bus arrives at a certain 
>> time, and it is easy to get to, and so I know at 30 after the hour I need 
>> to be there waiting.  Just FYI, you always want to be there about ten 
>> minutes before the scheduled arrival time of the bus so you do not miss 
>> it by accident. Here's a question for you: is your goal to ride the bus, 
>> or is your goal specificly to travel on the bus from your home?  Another 
>> option might be for you to cab (if available) to the mall and then take 
>> the bus home or, if possible, to another location that is easy to arrive 
>> to.  I don't mean to do this on a regular basis; I just mean for a first 
>> try.  Maybe, someone sighted could meet you, such as your mother, when 
>> you get off the bus, but you could insist that you walk home without 
>> holding her arm so you can learn the route, or you could just have 
>> someone walk with you to and from the bus pickup/drop off spot near your 
>> home to familiarize you with it before you take the bus at all.  Again, I 
>> would explore on my own, but if you are not an experienced traveler, it 
>> is okay to bring along company.  Just make sure the company is someone 
>> who will let you walk on your own and that the person is not too 
>> overhelpful or too afraid you will hurt yourself.  Just another thought. 
>> I agree with Ashley that is none of their business where you live; 
>> perhaps, it would be a better idea for you to ask someone or for you to 
>> use Google maps to learn the names of the street in your area.  For 
>> example, google directions from your house to a place you know is close 
>> by.  You will hear google say something like head west toward Bell Street 
>> or whatever, and then you would know the name of the cross street.  Or, 
>> if you already know the name of the highway with the red light, you could 
>> reference that with the bus.  The bus people speak over radios that can 
>> be heard by many people, and it is probably not a good idea to have your 
>> address broadcast over the system just for safety reasons even though you 
>> do live in a gated apartment. I am not trying to scare you; I am just 
>> pointing out that you might want to avoid using your address.  In fact, 
>> my bus system does not want your address, and I think there is a law or 
>> maybe company policy that you cannot give them specific directions like 
>> that.  Also, do you use the bus for people with disabilities in your 
>> area?  You do have to schedule this, but if you are not used to taking 
>> buses, this might be a first good step as it will take you from door to 
>> door and you can familiarize yourself with the environments, such as the 
>> layout of the mall, before you figure out how to city bus to it.  Just an 
>> idea.  I am certainly not trying to tell you not to take the bus.  But 
>> again, asking a buddy to come along for your first time is okay to do. 
>> BTW, transfering is not a big deal.  You just ask for a transfer slip 
>> when you get on the bus and give it to the next bus driver. If you 
>> transfer at a central location where all buses come together, you can ask 
>> the driver if the bus you are looking for, such as the green line, is in 
>> front of you or even if it has arrived yet.  Also, you can ask the driver 
>> to radio the driver for the bus to which you are transfering to tell them 
>> you are there, but still be certain to ask nearby people which color line 
>> of the bus is coming up as I do this all of the time, and it is 
>> beneficial.  I would call the bus company instead of facebooking them 
>> alone.  It is okay to facebook or send them a message, but you will still 
>> probably need to call to clarify information with them. Of course, you 
>> will know this for certain when you do the calling.  I am thinking if you 
>> call, that this is really your first big step because you have made human 
>> contact with them.  You may have done this in the past, but now you are 
>> nervous, and calling them now will mean you can succeed at one 
>> step--finding out the bus route.  If you have a scanner, you can probably 
>> scan this bus route in, and if you are a student at the college you 
>> mention, it probably has a scanner in its disability office that you may 
>> be able to use.  To hire a reader, put up an ad at the college.  This is 
>> if you need a reader for a steady amount of time each month, such as ten 
>> hours.  You wouldn't want to do that for just a one-time occurrence. Just 
>> some tips.  Sorry if I am so talkative.  I'm in school, and I'm too tired 
>> to do much editing and deleting extra information at this point. Smile. 
>> Again, good luck and have fun.  Anita
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>; "National Association 
>> of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions
>>
>>
>>> Hi Ashley, Anita, and All:
>>>
>>> First, Anita, I can't just call them and say "I'm waiting at this
>>> stop" as I don't know where the stop is from my apartment complex. I
>>> want to say it's at the light but not for certain. The website is
>>> inaccessible so I can't check there. So, I kind of have to call them
>>> and explain the situation and where I live.
>>>
>>> Also Anita, Morgantown is a college town and since the majority of the
>>> students can drive the bus caters to the freshman students. I do not
>>> live in the student area so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to
>>> transfer or take two buses to get anywhere. I don't think  I can just
>>> take just one bus to one location as it's weird here and you have to
>>> connect.
>>>
>>> I think I'd like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover for my first
>>> trip. I am on the same side of town as the mall so maybe just maybe I
>>> may be able to go on one bus but I'll have to check.
>>>
>>> Ashley, I live in a gated apartment complex...Don't I need to let them
>>> know what complex it is and where it is so they can tell me where the
>>> stop is?
>>>
>>> Also, our buses do not have directions like westbound...they are
>>> colored lines...the orange line, the blue and gold connector, the
>>> purple line, the brown line...they have no directional names what so
>>> ever.
>>>
>>> Since they are on Facebook...would it be okay if I messaged them since
>>> I'm better at writing than talking and can think out my questions
>>> better when writing? Or do I have to call? If I message them then I
>>> can copy/make notes on the time, any transfers, and location of stops
>>> as needed.
>>>
>>> Also, I'll ask if my friend could come down but you have to
>>> understand...it's my state president and her significant other and
>>> they are middle-aged so...I'll ask them but I don't know?
>>>
>>> I tried to talk to my mother to see if she could help me look at the
>>> schedule and map but she said I could just call...I don't know where
>>> else to get help from. Many of the sighted people I know have the
>>> typical feel sorry for the blind girl attitude so I don't know if
>>> asking a sighted friend to help me would be effective but I will try.
>>>
>>> Also since I shouldn't need to use the deviated route service to go to
>>> the mall I guess to keep things simple I'll leave the deviated route
>>> out for now.
>>>
>>> I don't currently have a reader nor know how to hire one though I've
>>> read about it.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Kerri
>>>
>>> On 10/12/10, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Kerri,
>>>> Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic and
>>>> safe.  If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no 
>>>> sidewalks and
>>>> built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially since 
>>>> you
>>>> say you're a beginning traveler.  My views of independence may be a 
>>>> little
>>>> different here.  But I say independence means going where you want to 
>>>> go and
>>>> when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for
>>>> assistant when needed.
>>>> Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really 
>>>> want
>>>> to go to this town center?
>>>>
>>>> I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that.  Generally
>>>> though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop.  Sit near 
>>>> the
>>>> driver and you might have to remind him/her.  If you need to transfer 
>>>> most
>>>> bus companies have a bus
>>>> transfer pass.  So get one before leaving your first bus.  Be sure to 
>>>> ask
>>>> what bus it is and where its going
>>>> when you board your second bus.  You don't want to board the wrong bus!
>>>>
>>>> As to the bus company and questions, its up to you.  But no I would not
>>>> recommend stating where you live.  Just explain you want to get from 
>>>> point A
>>>> to B and give the addresses.  Then yes you could explain you're blind 
>>>> and
>>>> ask about the deviated route if you wanted.
>>>> Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live 
>>>> although if
>>>> they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably
>>>> figure its your home.  But its not the company's business to know where 
>>>> you
>>>> live.
>>>> I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like 
>>>> yours is.
>>>> But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and 
>>>> repeat
>>>> it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood 
>>>> it.
>>>> Another option is to record the information while on the phone.  I get 
>>>> this
>>>> info:
>>>> 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the 38B
>>>> westbound.
>>>> Each bus has two directions so the direction is important.
>>>> 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination.
>>>> 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll tell 
>>>> me.
>>>> Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my 
>>>> end
>>>> stop?
>>>> 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid for?
>>>>
>>>> Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you 
>>>> and
>>>> describe major landmarks.
>>>> Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when 
>>>> to
>>>> get it.  Independence is being in control of your choices.
>>>> So print out the map and go over it with someone.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope
>>>>> these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one
>>>>> post.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the
>>>>> bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having
>>>>> is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving
>>>>> students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live
>>>>> downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do
>>>>> not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the
>>>>> bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus
>>>>> depots.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the
>>>>> bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first
>>>>> street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My
>>>>> apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't
>>>>> know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On
>>>>> top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this
>>>>> complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives
>>>>> in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before
>>>>> tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they
>>>>> will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you
>>>>> up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere
>>>>> simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling
>>>>> them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first
>>>>> time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with
>>>>> disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system?
>>>>>
>>>>> Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest
>>>>> Village
>>>>> Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the
>>>>> Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to
>>>>> take, and what times the lines run?
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to
>>>>> apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking
>>>>> general questions and see where I get from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there
>>>>> anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has
>>>>> taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but
>>>>> I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so
>>>>> is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain
>>>>> items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here
>>>>> and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get
>>>>> out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach.
>>>>> HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or
>>>>> announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to
>>>>> do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let
>>>>> me know when we get to the line I need to get off at.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out
>>>>> in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a
>>>>> description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or
>>>>> location of each stop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and
>>>>> Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to
>>>>> deviate for construction or something like that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that
>>>>> I wanted to get your opinions on.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have an area with
>>>>> sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town
>>>>> Center. I initially was under
>>>>> the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to.
>>>>> So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my
>>>>> first bus trip.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian
>>>>> friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long
>>>>> hill
>>>>> and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane
>>>>> highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some
>>>>> research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they
>>>>> are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could
>>>>> have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another
>>>>> such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been
>>>>> told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This
>>>>> shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club,
>>>>> Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe
>>>>> store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis
>>>>> Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden
>>>>> Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off
>>>>> at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one
>>>>> place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get
>>>>> groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie
>>>>> at the movie theater.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done
>>>>> but they wouldn't be as efficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider
>>>>> pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area
>>>>> and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe
>>>>> have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this
>>>>> area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no
>>>>> point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd
>>>>> be too much work/reconstruction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my
>>>>> griping or does action need to be taken?
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a
>>>>> movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I
>>>>> could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but
>>>>> for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area
>>>>> and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but
>>>>> get to practice cane travel as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this
>>>>> University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't
>>>>> pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one
>>>>> store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the
>>>>> restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about
>>>>> this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice
>>>>> travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live
>>>>> and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate
>>>>> them with ease?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want
>>>>> to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University
>>>>> town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to
>>>>> the mall instead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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