[nabs-l] Capta

Kirt Manwaring kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Thu Oct 21 04:36:56 UTC 2010 

I honestly don't know- I just know they work.

On 10/20/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Maybe here is the difference? Do the captcha solving services require that
> an actual person be on the other end to receive and solve the captcha?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>
>
>> Dear listers,
>>  Part of me is hesitant to throw my hat in to the captcha ring.
>> Again.  But here goes.
>>  I know that I, being totally blind, can solve any captcha either
>> with webvisum, selona, or the audio captchas out there.  I realize
>> that doesn't work for everyone, especially the deaf-blind community.
>> But without screen readers, computers aren't accessible to blind
>> people.  Does that mean off-the-shelf computers need to have
>> accessibility built in?  I don't think so, although apple's made the
>> idea viable.
>>  I think the same principle applies with captchas.  Were I
>> deaf-blind, I don't see why I couldn't use webvisum or salona, and get
>> the same information I do now with jaws and audio captchas.
>> Especially if I had a braille display.  To me, (and I say this knowing
>> many disagree and I respect that), that's no different than a blind
>> person using a screen reader to use an otherwise inaccessible computer
>> system.  But that's just my take on it, and it's just an opinion.
>> And, who knows, I might be seeing it all wrong.
>>  Respectfully,
>> Kirt
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> I think that this conversation is very interesting. However, before I say
>>> anymore, I want to emphasize that what follows is only my personal
>>> opinions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree that whatever security measure that is used needs to be
>>> accessible
>>> all disabilities. However, I find one fundamental flaw in the idea of
>>> making
>>> captcha accessible to screen readers. The original intent of captcha is
>>> to
>>> prevent automated systems from tricking the system. Although a screen
>>> reader
>>> in and of itself cannot fill out a form, someone who really knew what
>>> he/she
>>> was doing could harness this capability Rather than trying to figure
>>> which a
>>> way to make captcha accessible without defeating the purpose of captcha,
>>> I
>>> think that it would be better to try to find another security feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not think that whoever designed captcha purposefully made them
>>> inaccessible. Rather, the designer(s) was (were) simply unaware of such
>>> issues.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>
>>>
>>>> Peter,
>>>>
>>>> Let's write a resolution for it.  I'll volunteer to help write it with
>>>> you
>>>> and anyone else interested.
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>>>> sleeves,
>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:35 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>
>>>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>>>
>>>>    All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled
>>>> individuals
>>>> including the deaf-blind.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently
>>>> used social
>>>> networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly.
>>>>
>>>>        -Teal
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>    And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these
>>>>> things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is
>>>>> being
>>>>> done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available
>>>> tactually.
>>>>> I've
>>>>> said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to
>>>>> allow
>>>>> a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able
>>>> to create a
>>>>> way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and
>>>> reproduce it both
>>>>> audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing
>>>> impairments can have
>>>>> full
>>>>> access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of
>>>> our work with
>>>>> Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't
>>>>> there
>>>>> doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind
>>>> driver interface
>>>>> but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be
>>>> doing the same
>>>>> with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot
>>>> hack it because
>>>>> the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to
>>>> unintelligible
>>>>> to
>>>>> be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I
>>>> think that the
>>>>> most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I
>>>>> couldn't
>>>>> understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is
>>>>> discussion
>>>>> about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a
>>>> question that
>>>>> only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to
>>>> understand.
>>>>> For
>>>>> example:
>>>>> what is 1+1
>>>>> and
>>>>> what is one plus one
>>>>> mean the same thing to a human and would result in
>>>>> 2
>>>>> or two
>>>>> but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding
>>>> the writing
>>>>> than it would understanding the math.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Rob" <rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>; "National
>>>> Association
>>>>> of
>>>>> Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the
>>>>>> difference between a human & a computer. It is not
>>>> accessible by screen
>>>>>> readers, hence the assistance website.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley  Bramlett"
>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is CAPTA?  Maybe the advocacy program for your state.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini"
>>>>>>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NABS-L" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>
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