[nabs-l] Capta

Nicole B. Torcolini ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Thu Oct 21 04:27:48 UTC 2010 

Maybe here is the difference? Do the captcha solving services require that 
an actual person be on the other end to receive and solve the captcha?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta


> Dear listers,
>  Part of me is hesitant to throw my hat in to the captcha ring.
> Again.  But here goes.
>  I know that I, being totally blind, can solve any captcha either
> with webvisum, selona, or the audio captchas out there.  I realize
> that doesn't work for everyone, especially the deaf-blind community.
> But without screen readers, computers aren't accessible to blind
> people.  Does that mean off-the-shelf computers need to have
> accessibility built in?  I don't think so, although apple's made the
> idea viable.
>  I think the same principle applies with captchas.  Were I
> deaf-blind, I don't see why I couldn't use webvisum or salona, and get
> the same information I do now with jaws and audio captchas.
> Especially if I had a braille display.  To me, (and I say this knowing
> many disagree and I respect that), that's no different than a blind
> person using a screen reader to use an otherwise inaccessible computer
> system.  But that's just my take on it, and it's just an opinion.
> And, who knows, I might be seeing it all wrong.
>  Respectfully,
> Kirt
>
>
> On 10/20/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> I think that this conversation is very interesting. However, before I say
>> anymore, I want to emphasize that what follows is only my personal 
>> opinions.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree that whatever security measure that is used needs to be 
>> accessible
>> all disabilities. However, I find one fundamental flaw in the idea of 
>> making
>> captcha accessible to screen readers. The original intent of captcha is 
>> to
>> prevent automated systems from tricking the system. Although a screen 
>> reader
>> in and of itself cannot fill out a form, someone who really knew what 
>> he/she
>> was doing could harness this capability Rather than trying to figure 
>> which a
>> way to make captcha accessible without defeating the purpose of captcha, 
>> I
>> think that it would be better to try to find another security feature.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not think that whoever designed captcha purposefully made them
>> inaccessible. Rather, the designer(s) was (were) simply unaware of such
>> issues.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>
>>
>>> Peter,
>>>
>>> Let's write a resolution for it.  I'll volunteer to help write it with 
>>> you
>>> and anyone else interested.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their 
>>> sleeves,
>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:35 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>
>>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>>
>>>    All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled
>>> individuals
>>> including the deaf-blind.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>
>>>
>>> but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently
>>> used social
>>> networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly.
>>>
>>>        -Teal
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>
>>>
>>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>>
>>>>    And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these
>>>> things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is
>>>> being
>>>> done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available
>>> tactually.
>>>> I've
>>>> said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to
>>>> allow
>>>> a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able
>>> to create a
>>>> way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and
>>> reproduce it both
>>>> audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing
>>> impairments can have
>>>> full
>>>> access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of
>>> our work with
>>>> Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't
>>>> there
>>>> doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind
>>> driver interface
>>>> but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be
>>> doing the same
>>>> with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot
>>> hack it because
>>>> the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to
>>> unintelligible
>>>> to
>>>> be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I
>>> think that the
>>>> most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I
>>>> couldn't
>>>> understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is
>>>> discussion
>>>> about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a
>>> question that
>>>> only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to
>>> understand.
>>>> For
>>>> example:
>>>> what is 1+1
>>>> and
>>>> what is one plus one
>>>> mean the same thing to a human and would result in
>>>> 2
>>>> or two
>>>> but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding
>>> the writing
>>>> than it would understanding the math.
>>>>
>>>> Nicole
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Rob" <rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>; "National
>>> Association
>>>> of
>>>> Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the
>>>>> difference between a human & a computer. It is not
>>> accessible by screen
>>>>> readers, hence the assistance website.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley  Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is CAPTA?  Maybe the advocacy program for your state.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini"
>>>>>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>> To: "NABS-L" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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