[nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?

[Kirt Manwaring]

It's true that incredible progress has been made in terms of social
attitudes towards blind people.  And, I agree that if we're looking at
other civil rights' movements as a model, we can make so much more
incredible progress.  But I don't ever see a time where negative
stereotypes about blind people are completely gone.  I just don't.
  All the best,
Kirt

On 9/25/10, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
> For me, Kirt, the key sentence in your response is the following:
>
> Because we live in such a social world, I think it's fair to say those
> social attitudes are, unfortunately, a part of blindness in our society.
>
> There's a bit of ambiguity here.  If you mean such attitudes are a part of
> our society today, at this moment, then I doubt that many would disagree.
> But if you mean that such attitudes are necessarily, inevitably, must always
> be, a part of our society, then this is the point of disagreement I think.
> I don't think such attitudes are necessarily part of our society.  There is
> evidence drawn from other civil rights movements, and from the organized
> blind movement itself, that significant progress can be, and still is being,
> made.
>
> So in so far as an article like the one in question fails to emphasize the
> social barriers that impede the success of blind people, it is problematic
> and should be questioned and challenged.  Note the phrase, in so far as.  I
> don't think anyone is saying that the article can't be helpful in some ways.
> This article might inspire a blind person who has come to believe that she
> is inadequate and can't do anything, or the article might cause some
> employers to judge potential employees based on their skills, as did the
> employer in the article.  However, these possible benefits of such an
> article do not mean that there aren't serious problems with it as well.
> Whether an article like this does more harm than good, I'm not sure if any
> critical comments have claimed, so I think that's still an open question.
>
> Best,
>
> Marc
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?
>
>
>> Darrel,
>>  You said exactly what I wanted to.  You're just better at it.
>>  Jedi,
>>  Fair enough, but you needed the training, even if the hardest part
>> was overcoming the stereotypes.  Because we live in such a social
>> world, I think it's fair to say those social attitudes are,
>> unfortunately, a part of blindness in our society.  There's no way a
>> blind person's not going to encounter those so, to me, that's a part
>> of blindness.  Which means, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you had
>> stereotypes to get past the typical sighted person does not.  In that
>> way, there was an extra step in you learning how to cook.  So...I'm
>> not trying to generalize how quickly you learn how to cook, I'm just
>> saying blindness presents an extra challenge with it, even if that
>> challenge for you was mostly psychological.  Am I making any sense?
>>  Respectfully yours,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 9/25/10, darrel kirby <dkirby at mchsi.com> wrote:
>>> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very interesting.
>>> I
>>> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job
>>> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the
>>> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things
>>> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite
>>> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my education
>>> and
>>> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through
>>> instruction/education focused on visual techniques.  I do my job well and
>>> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that blindness
>>> is
>>> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become.
>>>
>>> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this woman. I
>>> thought
>>> her courage and hard work in overcoming  barriers is very impressive. I
>>> also
>>> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people
>>> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about the
>>> teaching
>>> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the
>>> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also recognized
>>> the
>>> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing this
>>> woman's
>>> ability to gain the skill and knowledge  of professional cooking from
>>> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is extraordnary. I do not
>>> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a
>>> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, but I think
>>> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing -
>>> whether she has sight or not.
>>> With all that being said, the author of the article should not be
>>> expected
>>> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments with one
>>> blind
>>> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this individual
>>> and
>>> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not the
>>> perfectly
>>> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an
>>> inspirational
>>> and educational article to read.
>>>
>>> Just My Opinion,
>>>
>>> Darrel Kirby
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Mary Fernandez
>>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>> Thanks Jedi for the .input   I could not have said it better. I truly
>>> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. Think about it.
>>> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's
>>> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting
>>> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and you really
>>> have
>>> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this article in
>>>
>>> my
>>> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted
>>> assistants
>>> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your hands out
>>> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her searching
>>> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many
>>> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being
>>> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts.
>>> Mary
>>> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were
>>> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or hear, and that
>>> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school and home
>>> in
>>> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to move
>>> around
>>> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's pretty
>>> southward
>>> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. While the
>>> article
>>> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition
>>> between her real capability and what people really think blindness is all
>>> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where
>>> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted
>>> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry.
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi
>>>>
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> Hello Andy,
>>>>> I thought it was excellent.  I kept waiting for it to go South but in
>>>>> my
>>>>> opinion it didn't.  I do not think any of us who are totally blind are
>>> ever
>>>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done.
>>>>> Blindness
>>> is
>>>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't.  When
>>>>> I
>>>>> hear that argument being made, it  is always clear to me that its
>>> proponent
>>>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth.  No sighted person
>>>>> is
>>>>> ever going to buy it.  This woman is at the top of her game, and for
>>> those
>>>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and
>>> this
>>>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the
>>>>> ability to be competent despite blindness.  Most sighted people know
>>>>> that
>>>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could
>>> never
>>>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one.
>>>>> Happy cooking,
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Andi" <adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> i   read this article, and was excited about this womans success but
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her!  I have also
>>> been
>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a
>>>>>> "disability"
>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of
>>> someone
>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing.
>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the
>>> blind
>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind.  How do you all feel
>>> about
>>>>>> this and other articals like it.  Do you have any sugjestions on how
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim
>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame
>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end
>>>>>> the quad-city times
>>>>
>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO
>>>>
>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim
>>>>
>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am
>>>>
>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers
>>> atop
>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable
>>>>>> grater.
>>>>
>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut.
>>>>
>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says.
>>>>
>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade.
>>>>
>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of
>>>>>> Moline
>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges."
>>>>
>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up,
>>>>>> explaining
>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat.
>>>>
>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she
>>>>>> feels
>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of
>>>>>> touch to make
>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right.
>>>>
>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she
>>> is
>>>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an
>>> exclusive
>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago.
>>>>
>>>>>> She also happens to be blind.
>>>>
>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration
>>>>
>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from
>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to
>>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday.
>>>>
>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile.
>>>>
>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with
>>>>>> retinal
>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is
>>>>>> what caused
>>>>>> her blindness.
>>>>
>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to
>>> treat
>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye.
>>>>
>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light.
>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her
>>>>>> active imagination instead.
>>>>
>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her
>>>>>> early
>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> special
>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a
>>>>>> three-hour car ride away.
>>>>
>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish,
>>> English
>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal
>>>>>> education at the
>>>>>> age of 10.
>>>>
>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached
>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam
>>>>>> McDermott.
>>>>>> The two spent
>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they
>>> remain
>>>>>> very close.
>>>>
>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing
>>>>>> situations
>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> other people
>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges.
>>>>
>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father.
>>>>
>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the
>>> quiet,
>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have
>>> different
>>>>>> skin
>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> school.
>>>>
>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who
>>>>>> told
>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said.
>>>>
>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or
>>> do
>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up."
>>>>
>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> her, Martinez said.
>>>>
>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes
>>> for
>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes.
>>>>
>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist.
>>>>
>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a
>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try?
>>>>
>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to
>>>>
>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the
>>>>>> challenge.
>>>>
>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said.
>>>>
>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges
>>>>
>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an
>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students
>>> but
>>>>>> not everyone
>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's
>>>>>> vice
>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is
>>>>>> tough.
>>>>
>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it
>>>>>> came
>>> to
>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The
>>>>>> school had
>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said.
>>>>
>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might
>>> impact
>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers
>>> could
>>>>>> present
>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a
>>> way
>>>>>> that would accommodate her.
>>>>
>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of
>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than
>>>>>> cooking
>>>>>> at home.
>>>>
>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said.
>>>>
>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and
>>>>>> desire"
>>> to
>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened
>>> focus
>>>>>> via
>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower."
>>>>
>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe
>>> it
>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs.
>>>>>> She
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife."
>>>>
>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think
>>> that's
>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no."
>>>>
>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in
>>>>>> Braille.
>>>>
>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything -
>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> smell to figure
>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether
>>>>>> meat
>>>>>> and other dishes are done.
>>>>
>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to
>>> debone
>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and
>>>>>> feeding it
>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and
>>>>>> feel
>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned
>>> where
>>>>>> and what
>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said.
>>>>
>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel."
>>>>
>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the
>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News"
>>> to
>>>>>> feature
>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS
>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter.
>>>>
>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her
>>>>>> some advice.
>>>>
>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his
>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected
>>>>>> that,
>>>>>> least of
>>>>>> all Martinez.
>>>>
>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive."
>>>>
>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp.,
>>> said
>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's
>>>>
>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said.
>>>>
>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she
>>>>>> began
>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the
>>> kitchen
>>>>>> and the
>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine.
>>>>
>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said,
>>> sniffing
>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline.
>>>>
>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just
>>> the
>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna.
>>>>
>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked.
>>>>
>>>>>> Still dreaming
>>>>
>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other
>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in
>>>>>> Moline. She is lost
>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled.
>>>>
>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks.
>>>>
>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she
>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she
>>>>>> says, for food
>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> she cooks a lot.
>>>>
>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD,
>>> but
>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> old favorite.
>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to
>>> give
>>>>>> it some kick, she said.
>>>>
>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a
>>> mix
>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> La Diosa,
>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess."
>>>>
>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up."
>>>>
>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to
>>>>>> fight,"
>>>>>> she added.
>>>>
>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' "
>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness
>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do
>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who
>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance
>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral
>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss
>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at
>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my
>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front
>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the
>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is
>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!).
>>>>
>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back,
>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my
>>>>>>> poor
>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in
>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work
>>>>>>> go,
>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds.
>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the
>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot
>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to
>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a
>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor
>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my
>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better
>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so
>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should
>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him.
>>>>
>>>>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury <clinton.waterbury at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> time I
>>>>>>>> was about five.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it?
>>> I'll
>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> it from you."
>>>>
>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without
>>>>>>>> it!
>>>>
>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it
>>>>>>>> ever
>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going
>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going
>>> with
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to
>>>>>>>>> alert
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is
>>> fine
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes:
>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being
>>>>>>>>> able
>>> to
>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to let us know.
>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus
>>> make
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves.
>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same
>>>>>>>>> email:
>>>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it?
>>>>>>>>> though
>>> I
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad
>>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that
>>>>>>>>> when I
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> held
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of
>>> the
>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work
>>> them
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a
>>>>>>>>> conflict
>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind
>>> people
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane
>>>>>>>>> gives
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how
>>>>>>>>> advanced
>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I
>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus
>>> hoping
>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one
>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots
>>>>>>>>> brought
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on recently.
>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
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>>> gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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