[nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?

Tue Sep 28 16:05:15 UTC 2010

Joe asked,

isn't it better for the public to hear stories of blind people actively 
working in the general public than to continue to rely on perceptions that 
blind people are still helpless and unemployable?

Marc says,

I haven't gone back to reread the posts on this, but I think it's worth 
noting that, if I recall correctly, no one said the story shouldn't have 
been written.  It's possible to be critical of a story like this, and yet to 
believe that, overall, it's good that the story was written and printed.

I don't think there's as much disagreement as it might seem.  One can be 
critical and yet believe the story is good, and another can praise the story 
and yet believe it's not perfect.  These are the positions I see being 
chalked out.

There is a benefit to being critical of these sorts of stories; for as we go 
on to have stories written about us, or as we write stories ourselves, we 
will be in a better position to make sure that certain mistakes are not made 
again, that the stories are even better.  If the criticism is motivated by 
envy, then we might have a problem, but I don't think that's what's driving 
any of the critical voices on this list.

Best,

Marc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?

> Darrel,
>
> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical
> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin)
>
> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint.  I'm a little bummed by people who do not
> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain
> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what 
> blind
> people are doing.  Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we 
> can't
> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to
> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than 
> to
> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and
> unemployable?
>
> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in 
> so
> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent 
> need
> to be thought of as "normal."  Normal is an elusive concept, and I
> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from
> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet.  If
> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a 
> waste
> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the
> Braille Monitor...
>
> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want 
> the
> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey 
> a
> more positive image?
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?
>
> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very
> interesting. I
> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job
> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the
> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things
> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite
> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my
> education and
> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through
> instruction/education focused on visual techniques.  I do my
> job well and
> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that
> blindness is
> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become.
>
> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this
> woman. I thought
> her courage and hard work in overcoming  barriers is very
> impressive. I also
> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people
> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about
> the teaching
> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the
> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also
> recognized the
> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing
> this woman's
> ability to gain the skill and knowledge  of professional cooking from
> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is
> extraordnary. I do not
> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a
> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished,
> but I think
> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing -
> whether she has sight or not.
> With all that being said, the author of the article should not
> be expected
> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments
> with one blind
> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this
> individual and
> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not
> the perfectly
> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an
> inspirational
> and educational article to read.
>
> Just My Opinion,
>
> Darrel Kirby
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Mary Fernandez
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?
>
> Hey all,
> Thanks Jedi for the .input   I could not have said it better. I truly
> understand how strong and incredible this woman is.
> Think about it.
> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's
> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting
> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and
> you really have
> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this
> article in my
> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted
> assistants
> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your
> hands out
> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her
> searching
> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many
> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being
> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts.
> Mary
> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote:
>
>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were
> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or
> hear, and that
> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school
> and home in
> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to
> move around
> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's
> pretty southward
> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed.
> While the article
> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition
> between her real capability and what people really think
> blindness is all
> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where
> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted
> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>>
>> Original message:
>>> Hello Andy,
>>> I thought it was excellent.  I kept waiting for it to go
> South but in my
>>> opinion it didn't.  I do not think any of us who are totally
> blind are
> ever
>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has
> done.  Blindness
> is
>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it
> isn't.  When I
>>> hear that argument being made, it  is always clear to me that its
> proponent
>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth.  No
> sighted person is
>>> ever going to buy it.  This woman is at the top of her game, and for
> those
>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely
> exclusive, and
> this
>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as
> having the
>>> ability to be competent despite blindness.  Most sighted
> people know that
>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could
> never
>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one.
>>> Happy cooking,
>>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Andi" <adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?
>>
>>
>>>> i   read this article, and was excited about this womans
> success but was
>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her!  I
> have also
> been
>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of
> you have.  I
>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a
> "disability"
>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of
> someone
>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have
> trouble doing.
>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the
> blind
>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind.  How do you all feel
> about
>>>> this and other articals like it.  Do you have any
> sugjestions on how to
>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world?
>>
>>
>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim
>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame
>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end
>>>> the quad-city times
>>
>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO
>>
>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim
>>
>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am
>>
>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers
> atop
>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable
>>>> grater.
>>
>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut.
>>
>>>> She never does, Martinez says.
>>
>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade.
>>
>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former
> resident of Moline
>>>> softly says. "It has ridges."
>>
>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it
> up, explaining
>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat.
>>
>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley.
> So, she feels
>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using
> her sense of
>>>> touch to make
>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right.
>>
>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the
> parsley with
>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs -
> because she
> is
>>>> one.
>>
>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an
> exclusive
>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago.
>>
>>>> She also happens to be blind.
>>
>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration
>>
>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from
>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She
> adapted to it.
>>
>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday.
>>
>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile.
>>
>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed
> with retinal
>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young
> child. That is
>>>> what caused
>>>> her blindness.
>>
>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to
> treat
>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye.
>>
>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light.
>>
>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all.
> She uses her
>>>> active imagination instead.
>>
>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after
> spending her early
>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for
> the blind or
>>>> special
>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a
>>>> three-hour car ride away.
>>
>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish,
> English
>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal
>>>> education at the
>>>> age of 10.
>>
>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached
>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide,
> Pam McDermott.
>>>> The two spent
>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they
> remain
>>>> very close.
>>
>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez,
> describing situations
>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer
> Helen Keller and
>>>> other people
>>>> who overcame life's challenges.
>>
>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her
> late father.
>>
>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the
> quiet,
>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have
> different
>>>> skin
>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the
> subject came up at
>>>> school.
>>
>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced
> people who told
>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said.
>>
>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid
> to talk or
> do
>>>> anything. But I don't give up."
>>
>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of
> possibilities for
>>>> her, Martinez said.
>>
>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take
> life-skills classes
> for
>>>> the blind. She took community college classes.
>>
>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist.
>>
>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a
>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try?
>>
>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to
>>
>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the
>>>> challenge.
>>
>>>> "I don't give up," she said.
>>
>>>> Culinary school brings challenges
>>
>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in
> Chicago, an
>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted
> as students
> but
>>>> not everyone
>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the
> school's vice
>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The
> curriculum is
>>>> tough.
>>
>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic"
> when it came
> to
>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The
>>>> school had
>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said.
>>
>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might
> impact
>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers
> could
>>>> present
>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but
> do so in a
> way
>>>> that would accommodate her.
>>
>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced
> environment of
>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different
> than cooking
>>>> at home.
>>
>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more
> fire," he said.
>>
>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive
> and desire"
> to
>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened
> focus
>>>> via
>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower."
>>
>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I
> can describe
> it
>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on
> your organs. She
>>>> just
>>>> has that delicate way with a knife."
>>
>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think
> that's
>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no."
>>
>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She
> labeled things in
>>>> Braille.
>>
>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything -
>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses
> her sense of
>>>> smell to figure
>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine
> whether meat
>>>> and other dishes are done.
>>
>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to
> debone
>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and
>>>> feeding it
>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their
> eyes and feel
>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned
> where
>>>> and what
>>>> to cut, Martinez said.
>>
>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like
> Jell-O," she said.
>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel."
>>
>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was
> published in the
>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS
> Evening News"
> to
>>>> feature
>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS
>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter.
>>
>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and
> maybe give her
>>>> some advice.
>>
>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a
> chef at his
>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one
> expected that,
>>>> least of
>>>> all Martinez.
>>
>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive."
>>
>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp.,
> said
>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's
>>
>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two
> attributes which he
>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said.
>>
>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week
> later, she began
>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the
> kitchen
>>>> and the
>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine.
>>
>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said,
> sniffing
>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home
> in Moline.
>>
>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down,
> hunting for just
> the
>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna.
>>
>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked.
>>
>>>> Still dreaming
>>
>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other
>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in
>>>> Moline. She is lost
>>>> because her family recently remodeled.
>>
>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks.
>>
>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her
> hands, which she
>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted
> person, she
>>>> says, for food
>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches
> the food that
>>>> she cooks a lot.
>>
>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or
> recorded on CD,
> but
>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special
> twist to an
>>>> old favorite.
>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her
> lasagna, just to
> give
>>>> it some kick, she said.
>>
>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami,
> offering a
> mix
>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would
> call the place
>>>> La Diosa,
>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess."
>>
>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up."
>>
>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the
> energy to fight,"
>>>> she added.
>>
>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' "
>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness
>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>
>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time.
> However, I do
>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my
> friend who
>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually
> does this with
>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance
>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no
> peripheral
>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I
> would miss
>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at
>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face,
> etcetra). I use my
>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and
> things in front
>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the
>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of
> us, as he is
>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!).
>>
>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely
> to learn the
>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that,
> looking back,
>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly
> because of my poor
>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in
>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let
> that work go,
>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding,
> and sounds.
>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way.
>>
>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane
> at the same
>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel
> free to shoot
>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I
> don't like to
>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter
> how good a
>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor
>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my
>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding
> (he better
>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted
> guides, too!), so
>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should
>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him.
>>
>>>>> ~Jewel
>>
>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury <clinton.waterbury at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three
> years of age, I
>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane.
>>
>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use
> it until the
>>>>>> time I
>>>>>> was about five.
>>
>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it?
> I'll
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> it from you."
>>
>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around
> without it!
>>
>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been
> using it ever
>>>>>> since.
>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going
> sighted
>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom
> I'm going
> with
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus
> doesn't know to
>>>>>>> alert
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this
> technique is
> fine
>>>>>>> to
>>
>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes:
>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same
> time being able
> to
>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might
> not have the
>>>>>>> mind
>>
>>>>>>> to let us know.
>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route
> following, thus
> make
>>>>>>> it
>>
>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves.
>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending
> in the same
>>>>>>> email:
>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in
> using it? though
> I
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a
> bad experience
>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years
> ago in that
>>>>>>> when I
>>
>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having
> it dusting, I
>>>>>>> held
>>
>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because
> memories of
> the
>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work
> them
>>>>>>> out
>>
>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you
> guys? It's a
>>>>>>> conflict
>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind
> people
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here
> in Mexico the
>>>>>>> blind
>>
>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when
> using the cane
>>>>>>> gives
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making
> the sighted
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another
> country when I
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things
> because of how
>>>>>>> advanced
>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years.
> some day I hope
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus
> hoping
>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which
> more than one
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating
> our roots
>>>>>>> brought
>>
>>>>>>> on recently.
>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>
>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
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> waterbury%40
> gmail.com
>>
>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> mail.com
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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