[nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted

Sun Apr 24 03:08:41 UTC 2011

Jedi,
  For someone who claims very little knowledge of the inner workings
of the other blind cultures outside the NFB and the consumer-trained
blind professionals, is it fair for you to say those cultures do not
have such and such elements?  (I know many unaffiliated blind who
value equal integration in the sighted world and say it's respectable
to be blind, I know some professionally-trained o&m instructors who
utilize structured discovery, etc)  I think, although your analysis is
technicly valid, there is a danger in over generalizing and putting
people in one group or another.  I'm honestly not sure which one of
your classes I'd fit in to- NFB?  Unaffiliated blind?  I certainly
share some of the cultural factors that, in my mind, define the
traditional blindness professional culture.  (not all, some)
And...*gasp* from what little I know of the Council, I identify with
some of their cultural characteristics as well.  So what am I?  An
unaffiliated Federationist traditional Council member?
  Best,
Kirt

On 4/22/11, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
> Yep, it's the cultural implications of black skin. And yes, i am a
> strong proponent of the concept of blind culture. But before you kill
> me on that one *grin* let me try to explain why I think there is "blind
> culture."
>
> Culture is a lot more than just language and geographic location. It's
> a lot more than just religion (for example) or art work. It's all of
> the above. Cultures are greater than the sum of their parts and consist
> of a shared set of beliefs, values, items, ways of doing things, and
> experiences that get transmitted from one generation to the next. Not
> all cultures have the same characteristics. for example, American
> culture isn't based purely on one religion, but it could be argued that
> some Middle Eastern countries have cultures that are.
>
> When it comes to blind culture, I think there are lots of them that
> share a lot of similar things. I think every country has its own blind
> cultures, and i'm pretty sure the U.S. has at least four, maybe even
> five. I make these distinctions based on each culture's beliefs,
> traditions, values, assumptions, artifacts, and even some linguistic
> differences. Yes, these cultures specifically relate to blindness, but
> I believe that they influence other aspects of our lives without us
> even being aware of it, especially since we live in a society that says
> blindness is such a huge factor in our lives.
>
> So here is my cultural taxonomy for the U.S.
>
> There's the NFB, the ACB, the unaffiliated blind, traditionally-trained
> professionals serving the blind, and consumer-based professionals
> serving the blind.
>
> I can't really comment too much on the ACB nor the unaffiliated blind
> because I am part of neither culture nor have I had the ability to
> study it. I can't really even say much about traditionall-trained
> professionals because I'm still in the process of studying their
> culture and because I'm not a part of it. But i do feel qualified to
> comment on NFB culture and consumer-based professional culture (which
> is pretty well the same thing but with a slight twist).
>
> I said that culture is defined as a set of values, assumptions, and
> artifacts, traditions, etc. So to make it short, I'll list a couple of
> things that I think can be listed for the NFB under each category. I've
> gone into these categories before elsewhere on list, so I won't put
> people through it again.
>
> Artifacts (things cultures use like language, art, things, symbols,
> etc): our characteristic long cane, the Whozit, the old NFB seal, our
> NFB songs, our catch phrases (It's respectable to be blind), our
> jargain, the national convention and the traditional activities in it
> like the mock trial, the LCB play, and the banquet speech, and our
> extremely timely agendas.
>
> Values (things we think are important): timeliness, independence,
> neatness, love, togetherness, collective action, confidence,
> competence, leadership, literacy, innovation, and justice
>
> Assumptions (these complete the phrase "of course..."): blindness is
> respectable, the blind can be independent, the blind should be
> integrated into society, the sighted should join us, but they shouldn't
> determine our destiny, we should take care of each other and help each
> other out whenever possible, we should take care of our space (the
> national center for example)
>
> You won't find a lot of these in any other blindness culture here in the
> U.S.
>
> And what about the issue of blind people integrating into society and
> this concept of blind culture? Funnily enough, it's one aspect of our
> blindness culture in the NFB that makes this argument possible to begin
> with. We share many cultural elements in common with the sighted since
> we are a cross-section of society at large; but we've also taken great
> pains to do what the sighted do in a number of areas such as social
> skills (for example). Our belief in inegration to the extent that it
> exists is something unique to our blind culture here in the NFB and
> that's why we can argue that the blind should not isolate themselves
> from sighted society because we are part of society and should be part
> of society. But here's the thing. You can belong to several cultures at
> once; it's called intersectionality. for instance, you can be Latino
> and still be an American. You can be culturally Deaf and be engaged in
> the local LGBT culture. You can be a member of the NFB culture and be
> just as a part of the greater sighted American culture. Some of these
> cultural identities share commonalities and sometimes they clash. In
> the NFB, we have both similarities with our sighted culture aspects and
> some horrible clashes, too. that's just the nature of being human and
> having multiple identities int the  same body.
>
> I'm off my soap box now. *grin*
>
> Respectfully Submitted
> Original message:
>> Jedi:
>
>> Well done.  I appreciate a thoughtful post such as that below.
>
>> As to having black skin being part of one's identity, is it the black skin
>> or the cultural nuances and preferences that traditionally have been
>> supposed to go along with black skin or have been imposed upon those with
>> black skin that are what contributes to the identity?
>
>> Mike
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Jedi
>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:49 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted
>
>> Mike,
>
>> Keeping in mind that you're asking someone who has been conditioned to
>> believe that sight is inherently more convenient than non-sight, I'll
>> admit
>> to you that I had some difficulty in generating a list of conveniences
>> associated with being blind. But for the fun of the exercise, here is a
>> list
>> I've generated thus far and encourage the rest of the list to come up with
>> some others if so moved.
>
>> 1. A blind person doesn't need windows. I think Jernigan pointed this one
>> out somewhere in one of his speeches.
>> 2. A blind person doesn't need light. You've pointed this one out.
>> 3. A blind person isn't hampered by changes in light level, including
>> brightness. Though this has already been half-stated in terms of the fact
>> that light is not required for a blind person to function, it's seldom
>> considered how much of a problem too much light can be for the sighted.
>> 4. Social customs aside, it really doesn't matter to us what color things
>> are. I thought this was brilliantly illustrated in Dr. Maurer's story
>> about
>> his gray pancakes.
>> 5. You'd be surprised what contortions the sighted will put themselves
>> into
>> in order to use their sight. For example, one of my profs at Tech
>> explained
>> how he once tried to see into a dark and cramped space in order to fix
>> something; this need required him to attempt to place his hands, a
>> flashlight, and his head into this cramped space. He then realized that if
>> he'd thought about doing the task non-visually, he would have only needed
>> to
>> put his hands into the space thus being much more comfortable.
>> 6. Blind people don't need mirrors. I don't know about the rest of you,
>> but
>> I consider this a major convenience.
>
>> All of these are quite trivial and don't fundamentally change the way a
>> blind person functions in the sighted world. But at the same time, the
>> conveniences associated with sight don't fundamentally impact the way they
>> function either. I think Jernigan pointed out that the ability to see
>> someone down the street is a convenience, but not a major part to
>> functioning. He pointed out instead that the real convenience of sight
>> comes
>> from the fact that life is structured for the sighted just as you did. Now
>> that is a convenience, but so is learning to do things non-visually. Sure,
>> a
>> sighted person can learn to do these things, but they often don't because
>> they think the way they do things visually is more efficient.
>
>> As to your other question about blindness, and identity, I think it is
>> possible to think of blindness as just a characteristic and also think of
>> it
>> as a fundamental part of one's identity in the same way that black skin is
>> a
>> characteristic and is thought of as fundamental to one's identity. Does
>> that
>> make sense?
>
>> Original message:
>>> Jedi:
>
>>> How so?  What conveniences are inherently associated with being blind?
>>> Yes, we can function in the dark but so can anyone else who does it for a
>> while.
>>> Ask any marine who's had to field-strip, clean and put back together
>>> his/her weapon in thirty seconds in the dark!
>
>>> Also, this whole analysis has some logical flaws.  Some of us
>>> (including
>>> you) say that we wouldn't want to be sighted, either because being
>>> blind is who we are or because we presume we would have to make
>>> adjustments.  But Arielle's Magic Pill would, presumably,
>>> automagically make all those adjustments for us so the operative
>>> question would be:  "If you didn't have to do anything outside of
>>> sucking down a pill to become sighted with all its attributes and
>>> knowledge outside of learning some skills like reading and driving,
>>> would you take the pill?"  In that sense, my answer would be yes, if only
>> because the world is structured for the sighted.
>
>>> And the only permanent thing is change and I contend that our
>>> identities are constantly changing and that if we truly believe in NFB
>>> philosophy, we wouldn't single blindness out as somehow inherently
>>> different from other characteristics.  Hence, to my way of thinking,
>>> as long as there were no great inconveniences other than learning a
>>> few skills to gaining sight, it would be rather dense of us not to take
>> the chance.
>
>>> But it ain'ta a-gonna happen in my lifetime, especially as my brain
>>> has already been rewired.
>
>>> Mike
>
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jedi
>>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:01 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted
>
>>> Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind
>>> usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some
>>> kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is
>>> injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The
>>> scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that
>>> blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good
>>> thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of
>>> society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one
>>> fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our
>>> world is structured for people who can see and there are some
>>> conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences
>>> associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from
>>> rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal
>>> characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do
>>> so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required
>>> to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative
>>> blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as
>>> giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to
>>> relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the
>>> change in functioning and any perceived changes in identity.
>
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Jedi
>
>>> Original message:
>>>> Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is
>>>> reasonable to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic
>>>> pill" scenario like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be
>>>> equally acceptable for
>>> a
>>>> sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what
>>>> ever reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind
>> people?
>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>>>> wrote:
>
>>>>> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a
>>> number
>>>>> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to
>>>>> the career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone,
>>>>> it's
>>> certainly
>>>>> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I
>>>>> am,
>>> and
>>>>> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight.
>
>>>>> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the
>>>>> possibility that governments will require all of us to undergo such
>>>>> procedures rather than allowing us the ability to be blind in a
>>>>> sighted world. In other
>>> words,
>>>>> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier
>>>>> and
>>> more
>>>>> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for
>>>>> everyone regardless of characteristics.
>
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> Jedi
>
>
>>>>> Original message:
>
>>>>>  Jorge and Homberto,
>>>>>>  I feel the same way.  I'm very curious to see what sight is like,
>>>>>> I wonder about it sometimes.  I'd even go as far as saying I
>>>>>> sometimes would like to see...but if the option were available, the
>>>>>> tedium of relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the
>>>>>> surgery for something I don't really need, more than balance out
>>>>>> any wish I have to see.  But, should a blind friend choose
>>>>>> differently and receive sight, I would totally understand, respect and
>> support that decision.
>>>>>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would
>>>>>> spark some interesting conversations.
>>>>>>  Just my thoughts,
>>>>>> Kirt
>
>
>>>>>  On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Hombertu,
>>>>>>> I agree.
>>>>>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason.
>>>>>>> I've learned everything without sight.
>>>>>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything.
>>>>>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember,
>>>>>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, and sight would
>>>>>>> just make it too difficult.
>
>
>>>>>  Jorge
>
>
>
>>>>>  On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote:
>
>
>>>>>  First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I
>>>>> myself
>>>>>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons:
>>>>>>>> 1.  since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being
>>>>>>>> sighted; just like a sighted person  had been born with sight and
>>>>>>>> feeling weird when they become blind. The world would be so
>>>>>>>> different and I cannot even explain how different since I've
>>>>>>>> never ever been sighted, and don't
>>> want
>>>>>>>> to be.
>>>>>>>> 2.  I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind
>>>>>>>> since I am born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for
>>>>>>>> me. Even my mom
>>> has
>>>>>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see"
>>> but
>>>>>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY *
>>>>>>>> that
>>> my
>>>>>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite
>>>>>>>> convincing
>>> way
>>>>>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and
>>>>>>>> attending
>>> NFB
>>>>>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my
>>>>>>>> own philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something
>>>>>>>> ordinary and normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted
>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question.
>
>
>
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted
>
>
>>>>>  Hi, all.
>
>
>>>>>  I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a
>
>>>>>>>> loved one goes
>
>>>>>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear
>
>>>>>>>> people talk
>
>>>>>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community
>
>>>>>>>> when they lost
>
>>>>>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list
>
>>>>>>>> about
>
>>>>>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us
>
>>>>>>>> differently,
>
>>>>>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind.
>
>
>>>>>  My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in
>
>>>>>>>> similar
>
>>>>>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind
>
>>>>>>>> students
>
>>>>>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly,
>>>>>>>>> it
>
>>>>>>>> is
>
>>>>>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of
>
>>>>>>>> both
>
>>>>>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different
>
>>>>>>>> opinions on
>
>>>>>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question
>
>>>>>>>> really got me
>
>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>
>
>>>>>  I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts!
>
>
>>>>>  -Jamie
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humberto
>>>>>>>>> a
>
>>>>>>>> 5369%40netzero.net
>
>
>
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