[nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Bridgit Pollpeter
bpollpeter at hotmail.com
Wed Feb 9 07:12:36 UTC 2011
Ashley,
I, too, do not do well with cardinal directions, but I have learned to
pay more attention to cardinal directions so when I travel, I can do my
best.
I was sighted for 22 years, and I am still a very visual person. It
helps me to visualize places to better navigate them. I no longer can
see beyond light, shadow and some colors (nothing to help in the vision
department) but I have relearned to use other sensory information to
translate a visual in my mind.
Don't say you can't do something until you have really tried it.
After graduating from a center, I did not use my travel skills as much
as I should have. I was terrible at figuring out unfamiliar places and
often I spent my time wandering around, trying to figure out what
direction to take. A waste of time, let me tell you. Once I started
really paying attention to my surroundings, and traveled independently
more often, I began to rely on other sensory information, and using
cardinal directions was not so confusing.
I will probably always have more difficulty navigating a space right
away-- some will be better than me, I will be better than some. I,
through practice, have discovered how to get past certain obstacles, and
my travel skills are much better and way more efficient.
All I have to say is, don't knock it until you've tried it! *smile*
Bridgit
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:11:49 -0500
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Message-ID: <6F1C496D1A6B4FC69BEC2F7EF0BFD2DF at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hello,
That's true Darian. There are people out there who went to no formal
training center or did it another way who are successful. There are
other
centers out there that use apartments for housing. Some people train on
their own and get a teacher from the agency for the blind to come out to
their home and teach them. There are itenerant rehab teachers and O&M
instructors.
Going the extended time to a training center for six months may not be
for
everyone due to leaving kids, not being able to keep their house while
gone
or other circumstances.
Structured discovery wouldn't work for me because I don't learn by
cardinal
directions in travel. I cannot interpret sound cues alone without
visual
input and I like maps rather than just oral directions to walk a few
blocks,
cross x street and y street and go to some address.
Traditional instructors are more concrete and may use maps to convey
concepts. Now I do agree some traditional instructors especially for
cane
travel, don't have the highest expectations.
But I hope that is changing and you can always push yourself if your
instructor doesn't.
People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged.
Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it. For
instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I have
a
foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to blend them
together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by sounding it out
and
problem solving with contextual clues in the sentence.
I already went to our state center for a while; several months and its
good
for some things and bad for others. For instance all we did in cooking
class
was baking sweets primarily.
The class I got the most from was daily living; the instructor showed
things and went step by step.
One size doesn't fit all. When I hear the nfb center graduates say
negative
things and make assumptions about other blind people like oh they lack
initiative or something it sounds like those who went to centers are
acting
elite.
That said I still need to figure out some skills. I don't know if I'll
go
to another center, probably carroll center, or learn on my own through
friends. But I really need to learn to cook!
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Darian Smith
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Bridgit and list,
I too graduated from a training center and feell like I benifited
greatly from that type of environment.
I will point out, however, that there are people who have not gone
through any formalized training or training at a center that stressed
structured discovery and end up just as successful, just as happy, just
asproductive as some of those who havegone. you could also say the same
for people who have gone through non-traditional methods of
post-secondary education, with some even being successful with no
college expirience. Will the numbers end up the same if you were to
break down statistics on the matter? I doubt it, but the examples are
out there. I say this not to disagree with bridgit, but to make a
counter argument just for the sake of discussion. Like I say, I went
through the training center environment that Bridgit speaks of, and
learned a great amount, I first started the program believeing that six
months would do it for me, andas I look back on it, it wouldn't have
done half of what I thought it would have.
thoughts folks?
respectfully,
Darian
On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear List,
>
> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel
> it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training
> center to attend.
>
> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the
> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do
> is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB
> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is
> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for
> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the
> skills.
>
> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these
> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people
> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn
> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are
> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not
> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability
> that most gain after at least a six month stint.
>
> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are
> against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense
> to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do
> things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at
> all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say
> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes
> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that
> when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish
> things.
>
> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that
> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never
> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all
> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core
> blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know
> the benefits.
>
> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do
> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods
> to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove
> ourselves to the world.
>
> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio
> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this,
> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use
> those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right
> away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style
> of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the
> Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but
> housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself
> and find out what you really are able to do.
>
> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training
> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing
> six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose
> universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to
> spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four
> years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why
> do we view training centers for the blind differently?
>
> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and
> what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that
> make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do
> we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not.
> We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes
> to choosing a training center.
>
> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message
> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision.
> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind
> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how
> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was
> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this
> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds
> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept
> this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating
> from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut
> this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do
> anything, and they are ready to face the world.
>
> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or
> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my
> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I
> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people
> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of
> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of
> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for
> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived
> away from home. I have not been back since.
>
> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind
> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and
> more, and I owe this to a positive training center.
>
> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic.
> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our
> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own
> potential.
>
> Bridgit
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm
> ail.com
>
--
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
"You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
But only you can have the drive."
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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rthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:14:53 -0700
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] As promised, Aplia post.
Message-ID:
<AANLkTik5d8WL3qwGNnPRqrENeb5ww+KoB-3yXhLoBdrs at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi, Joshua, Beth here. I am not in business communications, but you're
right. If Applia doesn't get compatible, then there will be a lawsuit.
Same as with Target dot com. Beth
On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I'm in a business communications class in college. The online workbook
> for this class is called Aplia. You can go to www.aplia.com, sign in
> via your E-mail address, and put your date of birth as your password.
> That is the only password these college sites accept. Once you've
> joined Aplia, you can read the questions, and do the assignments. This
> is only for those of you that are taking Business Communications
> classes, that use the program, this isn't for just anyone. I'm
> bringing this up, because the Jaws doesn't read all of the text to me,
> and I have to have a reader, in order to do this work. When the Jaws
> does read it, I can read the questions, but when I check the answers,
> it won't tell me if I've answered the questions or not. My instructor
> has E-mailed them about this problem, but they haven't responded to
> her. If they don't respond, I think it would be wise for the NFB to
> get involved. There may be more blind students using this program, and
> it needs to be compatible with the Jaws program. If this company
> doesn't do their duty, as written in the IDEA, there could be legal
> troubles awaiting them. I just want to know, how many of you are in
> Business Communications classes, or have taken them, using Aplia.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos
> e%40gmail.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:18:55 -0500
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Message-ID: <A1CAED30BBC143DFAD646118C99D8F53 at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Kirt,
Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using
apartment style living.
Both centers have blind staff and I've heard good things about them
although
those individuals were not NFB members.
The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. If
you
finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part time or
get
some work experience on days you don't have classes.
Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational
activities
for students; students can do what they want outside of class and are
encouraged to go have fun in the city.
Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are one
bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a room
mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course.
Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it
may
not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions
outside
of class as to where you can go.
Good luck with your decission.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM
To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Bridget, Joe, Darian and all,
I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want
to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training centers,
as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and I think
I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any other high
quality centers out there that push the same standard of independence?
If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a slight plus for me,
too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try and regulate your time
outside of the classroom and planned activities. In other words, I want
my free time to be my free time and, in the teen training program I went
to in my state (which was great for me and perfect for my needs at the
time), that wasn't the case.
Thoughts?,
Kirt
On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bridgit,
>
> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training
> at
> a
> Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of
us
> with a slightly dissenting view.
>
> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was
> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all
> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right
> path to independence.
> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my
first
> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but
the
> second reason, to me, still holds a little water.
>
> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for
> choosing
> not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model
of
> training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that
makes
> people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first
in
> line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind
> what
> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very
little
> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB
> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but
no,
> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants
> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch
professionals
> who
> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of
> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in
> uncertain
> economies.
>
> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training
> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think
> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared
> to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of
> doing it on your own across a
> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across
> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though
I
> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork.
Maybe
> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll
convince a
> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities.
Success
> is
> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center,
you'll
> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work
even
> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you
and
> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would
have
> been
> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read
> something like the post below when I graduated from high school.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at
> all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
>
> Dear List,
>
> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel
> it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training
> center to attend.
>
> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the
> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do
> is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB
> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is
> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for
> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the
> skills.
>
> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these
> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people
> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn
> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are
> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not
> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability
> that most gain after at least a six month stint.
>
> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are
> against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense
> to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do
> things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at
> all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say
> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes
> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that
> when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish
> things.
>
> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that
> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never
> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all
> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core
> blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know
> the benefits.
>
> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do
> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods
> to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove
> ourselves to the world.
>
> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio
> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this,
> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use
> those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right
> away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style
> of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the
> Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but
> housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself
> and find out what you really are able to do.
>
> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training
> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing
> six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose
> universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to
> spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four
> years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why
> do we view training centers for the blind differently?
>
> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and
> what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that
> make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do
> we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not.
> We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes
> to choosing a training center.
>
> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message
> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision.
> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind
> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how
> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was
> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this
> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds
> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept
> this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating
> from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut
> this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do
> anything, and they are ready to face the world.
>
> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or
> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my
> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I
> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people
> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of
> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of
> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for
> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived
> away from home. I have not been back since.
>
> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind
> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and
> more, and I owe this to a positive training center.
>
> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic.
> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our
> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own
> potential.
>
> Bridgit
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude
> %40gmail.com
>
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea
rthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:24:34 -0500
From: Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] applications key for Windows on a Mac
Message-ID: <5BA56CBA-E666-4DFE-BA87-1BF7B1AEAEE9 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Hi all:
Just wondering,
when you are using Windows on a mac,
I know the alt key will be the command key, start menu will be to the
right of that, etc.
Where will the applications key be?
Will it be on the left where you find Command, option, control and
function on the Mac--and does that mean Windows control will be the
function key?
Thanks.
Jorge
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:28:30 -0500
From: Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac
Message-ID: <71687AB0-C15D-4FAC-BD2F-B521A456C060 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Thanks IC.
Just wondering, would I have to reformat my drive in order to duelboot?
On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:53 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
> Just get it from Bittorrent or something. As long as you have a valid
> license you shouldn't have any issues activating Windows. Just make
> sure to download the exact version of the OS that your license is for.
> On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>
>> OK Thanks guys.
>>
>> Anywhere I can download a demo version of Windows?
>>
>> I already have license,
>> but don't have the CD it came with.
>>
>> Anywhere I could download and license the download?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Maurice Mines wrote:
>>
>>> yes.
>>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi guys:
>>>> I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school,
>>>> because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office.
>>>>
>>>> So my question is this.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Jorge
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me
>>>> .com
>>>
>>> Maurice Mines
>>> minesm at me.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
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>>> 0mac.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>> 40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> ac.com
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:37:12 -0500
From: Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
Message-ID: <EFE7B486-00B8-46B3-B9C1-E98F0CDDBA3F at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Diversity?
Can you please elaborate?
Thanks,
Jorge
On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Daniel Romero wrote:
> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't
> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my
> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because
> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the
> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing
> about the center.
>
> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Daniel,
>>
>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For
>> the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they
>> don't force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into
>> something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Daniel Romero" <djdan567 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>>
>>
>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in
>>> touch! What did you play?
>>>
>>> On 2/7/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby
>>>> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going
>>>> to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank
>>>> Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m
>>>> Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM
>>>> iss the same as my twitter. Beth
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Daniel Romero <djdan567 at gmail.com
>>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>>>>
>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and
>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New
>>>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a
>>>> highschool
>>>> program in NJ called LEAD.
>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing
>>>> how
>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it
>>>> would
>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students
>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the
>>>> NABS
>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey.
>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more,
>>>> you
>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Daniel C Romero
>>>> Paterson New Jersey
>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail:
>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com
>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246
>>>> Skype: radiodj246
>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi
>>>> sloose%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail
.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel C Romero
>>> Paterson New Jersey
>>>
>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955
>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844
>>> MSN messenger/E-mail:
>>> djdan567 at gmail.com
>>> Aim: RadioDJ246
>>> Skype: radiodj246
>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas
%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gm
>> ail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Daniel C Romero
> Paterson New Jersey
>
> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955
> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844
> MSN messenger/E-mail:
> djdan567 at gmail.com
> Aim: RadioDJ246
> Skype: radiodj246
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m
> ac.com
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:47:02 -0700
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=JD2OOkRRHw8uHj+D7bcAicevS+KLU0i2Qg-f2 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Joshua,
Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good deal
more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with lots of
graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, but get in
the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare files. One of
my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this one hasn't had
that problem.
All the best,
Kirt
On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws
> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the
> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy
>> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in
>> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential
>> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me.
>> Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and
>> inconvenient. Especially for large books.
>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything.
>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer
>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very
>> well at all.
>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through
>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster
>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit
>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to
>> me at a consistently faster pace.
>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a
logic
>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I
>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not
>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I
>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge
>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely
>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or
practical
>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it
isn't.
>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille
>> skills still.
>> All the best,
>> Kirt
>>
>>
>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they
>>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their
>>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my
>>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer.
>>> I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined
>>> the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and
>>> I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that
>>> most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to
>>> 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take
>>> classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World
>>> Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything
>>> to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but
>>> Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as
>>> well. Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing
>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid
>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are
>>>> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that
>>>>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and
>>>>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's
>>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress
>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
udents.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4
0gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude
> %40gmail.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:55:48 -0600
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimz5v7OnFWQ9GF5BF71OC-OsiP=fNK+__YNZUtn at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any
classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the Bookshare
files for my Geography textbook, Business communications textbook, and
my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, these readers from
RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady reading my Freshman
English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on that recording. She was
the best one of all of them. Too bad they don't give their volunteer
readers credit. They should give the names of those narrators. The ones
that do a great job should be rewarded! They need to pick individuals
that can project well, and can enunciate their words. I've had enough of
the mumbo-jumbo that passes for audiobooks. That's just my two cents
worth. Blessings, Joshua
On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joshua,
> Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good
> deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with
> lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text,
> but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare
> files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this
> one hasn't had that problem.
> All the best,
> Kirt
>
> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws
>> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the
>> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy
>>> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in
>>> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential
>>> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me.
>>> Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy,
>>> and inconvenient. Especially for large books.
>>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything.
>>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer
>>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very
>>> well at all.
>>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through
>>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster
>>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit
>>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to
>>> me at a consistently faster pace.
>>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a
logic
>>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I
>>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading,
not
>>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller.
I
>>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a
huge
>>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely
>>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or
practical
>>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it
isn't.
>>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille
>>> skills still.
>>> All the best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they
>>>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their
>>>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my
>>>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the
>>>> answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list.
>>>> I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to
>>>> Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It
>>>> bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their sight
>>>> in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas.
>>>> They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or
>>>> Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers
>>>> read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer
>>>> programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should
>>>> join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing
>>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid
>>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers
>>>>> are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny
>>>>>>that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history
>>>>>>and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's
>>>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress
>>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
udents.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4
0gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
udents.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>> e%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40
> students.pccua.edu
>
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:09:24 -0700
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=SwcxOxbaYqqxb1RrL=MKL6tWHC3d3eWksYCEn at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Fair enough. HOnestly, I don't know what I'd do without my campus
disability center. They scan my textbooks and give them to me as
text/rtf/kurzweil files, whatever format I want...then I can read them
however I like and, by and large, they are readable.
All the best,
Kirt
On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any
> classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the
> Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications
> textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology,
> these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady
> reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on
> that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they
> don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names
> of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded!
> They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate
> their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for
> audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>> Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good
>> deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with
>> lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text,
>> but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare
>> files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this
>> one hasn't had that problem.
>> All the best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws
>>> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the
>>> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for
>>>> literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not
>>>> being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great,
>>>> it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit
>>>> much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is
>>>> cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books.
>>>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything.
>>>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer
>>>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics
very
>>>> well at all.
>>>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through
>>>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is
faster
>>>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit
>>>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things
to
>>>> me at a consistently faster pace.
>>>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a
logic
>>>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille.
I
>>>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading,
not
>>>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller.
I
>>>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a
huge
>>>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it
absolutely
>>>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or
practical
>>>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it
isn't.
>>>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille
>>>> skills still.
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that
>>>>> they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been
>>>>> their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded
>>>>> was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is
>>>>> the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this
>>>>> list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes
>>>>> to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all!
>>>>> It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their
>>>>> sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in
>>>>> Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the
>>>>> Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have
>>>>> computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these
>>>>> computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe,
>>>>> I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing
>>>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid
>>>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers
>>>>>> are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny
>>>>>>>that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history
>>>>>>>and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that
>>>>>>>it's laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress
>>>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
udents.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4
0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
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udents.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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0gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> %40gmail.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:34:10 -0500
From: Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
Message-ID: <1B40126B-F212-496D-A4B0-712BBEF23413 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
How do they help newly blinded adults?
1. by giving them the same treatment as when they were sighted, building
up confidence, and
2. by teaching them the skills,
which they'll have to use every day.
What I like so much about BLIND INC. was that it was that real-world
test that really helped me.
Not only did I learn the skills--but I put them to practice each and
every day while in training.
This was no theory training--but solid hands on training.
Jorge
On Feb 8, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote:
> How do these NFB Centers help newly blinded adults then? What purpose
> do you have going to a center like this if you can essentially get the
same thing from a visiting rehab instructor in your own place! I
successfully graduated from the Carroll Center and I'm a very
independent person. Do you happen to know a guy by the name of Kacey
Lackrets? He and I were in the same Carroll Center program. He is in
college at NYU and is an NJ native as well.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero"
<djdan567 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>
>
>> You see, we have a center in New jersey called JKRC, where it is a 16
>> week program, as well. I've heard way to many negative stories. Most
>> people I know who went their, are still living at home, don't make
>> their own meals, can't repare anything for themselves and other
>> indipendent things that should be done. I've heard however, many
>> success stories from the NFB training centers. I think they put you
>> in an apartment right at the start, because i feel that's how it is
>> in the world. Even in apartments for college. if you get an apartment
>> during college, you'd be lost. I think in the real world, you're
>> pushed to get your own place and do your own things, and I think
>> that's how it should be. That's one of the biggest problems today is
>> that blind people can't fend for themselves, that's why 70 percent of
>> them are unemployed. That's sad! So by you telling me that it's a 16
>> week program, that's sounding like our JKRC program out here in
>> Jersey. I'm not trying to come across rood, nasty or anything like
>> that. I'm just stating it how it really is.
>>
>> On 2/8/11, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's
>>> not the way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire
>>> year while the Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Daniel Romero" <djdan567 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>>>
>>>
>>>> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't
>>>> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my
>>>> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but
>>>> because of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But
>>>> thanks for the recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since
>>>> I know nothing about the center.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> Daniel,
>>>>>
>>>>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For
>>>>> the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and
>>>>> they don't force you
>>>>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something
like that
>>>>> is
>>>>> the best thing. It was what I needed!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Daniel Romero" <djdan567 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep
>>>>>> in touch! What did you play?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/7/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician
>>>>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm
>>>>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind.
>>>>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never
>>>>>>> guess, but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is
>>>>>>> jazzychic2. My AIM iss the same as my twitter. Beth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Daniel Romero <djdan567 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer,
>>>>>>> and singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS
>>>>>>> (New Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily
>>>>>>> active in a highschool
>>>>>>> program in NJ called LEAD.
>>>>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello
students
>>>>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the
>>>>>>> NABS
>>>>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey.
>>>>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more,
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Daniel C Romero
>>>>>>> Paterson New Jersey
>>>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail:
>>>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246
>>>>>>> Skype: radiodj246
>>>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues
>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail
.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Daniel C Romero
>>>>>> Paterson New Jersey
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955
>>>>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844
>>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail:
>>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com
>>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246
>>>>>> Skype: radiodj246
>>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas
%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail
.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Daniel C Romero
>>>> Paterson New Jersey
>>>>
>>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955
>>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844
>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail:
>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com
>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246
>>>> Skype: radiodj246
>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas
%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail
.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daniel C Romero
>> Paterson New Jersey
>>
>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955
>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844
>> MSN messenger/E-mail:
>> djdan567 at gmail.com
>> Aim: RadioDJ246
>> Skype: radiodj246
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>> kas%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m
> ac.com
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:20:53 -0500
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text
Message-ID: <2A83070EF5CF4B1783C8C7D0D5FB5B88 at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi,
That's great your DSS and most scan texts and put them in the text form
of
your choice. How long does that take?
Do you get the chapters in time to read for homework? Is the whole book
on
CD once all scanned? Do you have to give them your book for scanning?
If so, do they cut the binding off to scan? I wouldn't want them to
tear
the book apart since then it cannot be sold to the bookstore. Nova,
the
community college, does not have scanning ability and told me they'd
have to
send the book to George mason university if I wanted it scanned.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:09 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text
Fair enough. HOnestly, I don't know what I'd do without my campus
disability center. They scan my textbooks and give them to me as
text/rtf/kurzweil files, whatever format I want...then I can read them
however I like and, by and large, they are readable.
All the best,
Kirt
On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any
> classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the
> Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications
> textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology,
> these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady
> reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on
> that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they
> don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names
> of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded!
> They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate
> their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for
> audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>> Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good
>> deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with
>> lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text,
>> but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare
>> files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this
>> one hasn't had that problem.
>> All the best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws
>>> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the
>>> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for
>>>> literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not
>>>> being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great,
>>>> it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit
>>>> much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is
>>>> cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books.
>>>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything.
>>>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer
>>>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics
very
>>>> well at all.
>>>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through
>>>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is
faster
>>>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit
>>>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things
to
>>>> me at a consistently faster pace.
>>>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a
logic
>>>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille.
I
>>>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading,
not
>>>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller.
I
>>>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a
huge
>>>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it
absolutely
>>>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or
practical
>>>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it
isn't.
>>>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille
>>>> skills still.
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that
>>>>> they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been
>>>>> their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded
>>>>> was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is
>>>>> the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this
>>>>> list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes
>>>>> to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all!
>>>>> It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their
>>>>> sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in
>>>>> Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the
>>>>> Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have
>>>>> computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these
>>>>> computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe,
>>>>> I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing
>>>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid
>>>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers
>>>>>> are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny
>>>>>>>that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history
>>>>>>>and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that
>>>>>>>it's laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress
>>>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
udents.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4
0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
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udents.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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0gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> %40gmail.com
>
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:51:50 -0500
From: Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] training centers
Message-ID: <DB1921E2-26BC-46E8-9D9A-76D5799A59FD at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Hello.
I am currently in high school but I'm thinking of things I need to do in
terms of my training.
Thus far I went to BLIND INC. for one summer.
But I think I need more training then jus one summer.
However, both CBVH and my parrents don't seem to like the idea of me
doing it again.
Would there be any advantage to me going back to a center this year?
Or should I simply wait till I graduate and go to the full 9 month
program?
Is it worth it since I already went to a youth training program.
Also, what is, in your experience the best training center?
I already attended BLIND INC., so I'm familiar with them,
but am open to other ideas.
Thanks,
Jorge
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:32:40 -0500
From: "Anjelina" <anjelinac26 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
Message-ID: <8528672ED6414B9FB10293FC2BF26B24 at AnjelinaPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
reply-type=response
I don't know exact figures, but I've heard the two are comparable.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Hatgelakas
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:57 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
How much cheaper would a CCB training Center be for nine months than a
16 week traditional center like Carroll Center?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anjelina" <anjelinac26 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
> The advantage to a more time intensive training program is you are
> immersed in the skills on a regular basis. The skills become habits
> (having to cook, clean, travel to and from the center, etc.)which are
more
> likely to last. This approach isn't for everyone, however, it is an
> effective method. More time is spent at the center, but it's more cost
> effective for voc rehab in the long run.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:37 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re:
> [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>
> Brian,
> It?s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to
> experience
> independent living from day one Many people like it and
experimenting. I
> agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us want to learn
the
> skills like cooking/shopping before entering an apartment.
>
> Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Hatgelakas
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>
> Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's
> not
> the
> way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while
the
> Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Romero" <djdan567 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>
>
>> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't
>> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my
>> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because
>> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the
>> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing
>> about the center.
>>
>> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Daniel,
>>>
>>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For
>>> the
>>> Blind
>>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't
force
>>> you
>>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like
that
>>> is
>>> the best thing. It was what I needed!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Daniel Romero" <djdan567 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>>>
>>>
>>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep
>>>> in touch! What did you play?
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician
>>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm
>>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind.
>>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess,
>>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My
>>>>> AIM iss the same as my twitter. Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Daniel Romero <djdan567 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and
>>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New
>>>>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a
>>>>> highschool
>>>>> program in NJ called LEAD.
>>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing
>>>>> how
>>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it
>>>>> would
>>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students
>>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the
>>>>> NABS
>>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey.
>>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more,
>>>>> you
>>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Daniel C Romero
>>>>> Paterson New Jersey
>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail:
>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com
>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246
>>>>> Skype: radiodj246
>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi
>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail
.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Daniel C Romero
>>>> Paterson New Jersey
>>>>
>>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955
>>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844
>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail:
>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com
>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246
>>>> Skype: radiodj246
>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas
%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail
.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daniel C Romero
>> Paterson New Jersey
>>
>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955
>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844
>> MSN messenger/E-mail:
>> djdan567 at gmail.com
>> Aim: RadioDJ246
>> Skype: radiodj246
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas
%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40
> earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gm
ail.com
>
>
> Anjelina
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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%40verizon.net
>
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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ail.com
Anjelina
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:29:24 -0600
From: Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikqkaAGgxRkDKGGwYQokifLQc0fTPkCCj6QscyW at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi all,
Here's my two cents.
I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people
need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe
that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a
center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type
program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am
of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning
new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the
skills we already have.
With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal"
expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right
possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not
necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to
get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use
the skills they have learned while they were growing up.
I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the
skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the
best way to learn something is to teach that something.
I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of
your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning they
will receive better trainning because they are farther from home,
farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If
you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This
will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build
confidence in you.
I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these
skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen
programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind
later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the
real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like
their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society
at large.
To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual.
Your thoughts?
Respectfully,
Jordan<bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Kirt,
> Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using
> apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard
> good things about them although those individuals were not NFB
> members.
>
> The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one.
> If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part
> time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes.
> Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational
> activities for students; students can do what they want outside of
> class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city.
>
> Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are
> one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a
> room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland
> sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be
> comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of
> class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
>
>
> Bridget, Joe, Darian and all,
> I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want
> to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training
> centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and
> I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any
> other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of
> independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a
> slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try
> and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned
> activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time
> and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was
> great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the
> case. Thoughts?,
> Kirt
>
> On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bridgit,
>>
>> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing
>> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because
>> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view.
>>
>> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was
>> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all
>> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right
>> path to independence.
>> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my
first
>> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority,
but the
>> second reason, to me, still holds a little water.
>>
>> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for
>> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone
>> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among
>> Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left
>> out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing
>> what you need to do and never mind what
>> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very
little
>> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to
NFB
>> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations,
but no,
>> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants
>> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch
professionals
>> who
>> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of
>> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in
>> uncertain
>> economies.
>>
>> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training
>> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think
>> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be
>> prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the
>> disadvantage of doing it on your own across a
>> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across
>> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that,
though I
>> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork.
Maybe
>> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll
convince a
>> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities.
Success
>> is
>> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center,
you'll
>> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work
even
>> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you
and
>> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would
have
>> been
>> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read
>> something like the post below when I graduated from high school.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at
>> all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
>>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I
>> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good
>> training center to attend.
>>
>> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the
>> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can
>> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB
>> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is
>> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for
>> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the
>> skills.
>>
>> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these
>> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people
>> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn
>> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are
>> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not
>> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability
>> that most gain after at least a six month stint.
>>
>> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people
>> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made
>> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can
>> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision
>> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say
>> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes
>> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and
>> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively
>> accomplish things.
>>
>> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that
>> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never
>> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all
>> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard
>> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and
>> know the benefits.
>>
>> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do
>> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and
>> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to
>> prove ourselves to the world.
>>
>> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio
>> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this,
>> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to
>> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation
>> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this
>> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department
>> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers,
>> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge
>> yourself and find out what you really are able to do.
>>
>> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training
>> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and
>> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we
>> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't
>> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work
>> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education
>> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently?
>>
>> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are
>> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life
>> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our
>> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of
>> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then,
>> when it comes to choosing a training center.
>>
>> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message
>> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision.
>> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind
>> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how
>> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was
>> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this
>> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds
>> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to
>> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone
>> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the
>> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing
>> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world.
>>
>> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or
>> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my
>> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I
>> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people
>> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of
>> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of
>> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for
>> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived
>> away from home. I have not been back since.
>>
>> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind
>> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and
>> more, and I owe this to a positive training center.
>>
>> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic.
>> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our
>> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own
>> potential.
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>> e%40gmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40
> earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%4
> 0gmail.com
>
--
Jordan Richardson
President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to
repair broken men." ~*Frederick
Douglass*<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/frederickd201574.ht
ml>
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:37:42 -0600
From: Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Message-ID:
<AANLkTik9q6U-8d1RjcFpQMGansmUj+BP34jZw0Pmb5CO at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi all,
Here's my two cents.
I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people
need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe
that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a
center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type
program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am
of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning
new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the
skills we already have.
With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal"
expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right
possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not
necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to
get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use
the skills they have learned while they were growing up.
I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the
skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the
best way to learn something is to teach that something.
I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of
your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning they
will receive better trainning because they are farther from home,
farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If
you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This
will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build
confidence in you.
I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these
skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen
programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind
later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the
real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like
their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society
at large.
To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual.
Your thoughts?
Respectfully,
On 8 February 2011 14:18, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Kirt,
> Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using
> apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard
> good things about them although those individuals were not NFB
> members.
>
> The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one.
> If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part
> time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes.
> Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational
> activities for students; students can do what they want outside of
> class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city.
>
> Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are
> one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a
> room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland
> sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be
> comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of
> class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
>
>
> Bridget, Joe, Darian and all,
> I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want
> to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training
> centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and
> I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any
> other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of
> independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a
> slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try
> and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned
> activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time
> and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was
> great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the
> case. Thoughts?,
> Kirt
>
> On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bridgit,
>>
>> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing
>> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because
>> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view.
>>
>> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was
>> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all
>> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right
>> path to independence.
>> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my
first
>> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority,
but the
>> second reason, to me, still holds a little water.
>>
>> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for
>> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone
>> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among
>> Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left
>> out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing
>> what you need to do and never mind what
>> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very
little
>> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to
NFB
>> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations,
but no,
>> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants
>> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch
professionals
>> who
>> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of
>> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in
>> uncertain
>> economies.
>>
>> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training
>> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think
>> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be
>> prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the
>> disadvantage of doing it on your own across a
>> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across
>> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that,
though I
>> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork.
Maybe
>> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll
convince a
>> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities.
Success
>> is
>> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center,
you'll
>> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work
even
>> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you
and
>> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would
have
>> been
>> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read
>> something like the post below when I graduated from high school.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at
>> all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
>>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I
>> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good
>> training center to attend.
>>
>> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the
>> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can
>> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB
>> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is
>> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for
>> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the
>> skills.
>>
>> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these
>> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people
>> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn
>> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are
>> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not
>> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability
>> that most gain after at least a six month stint.
>>
>> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people
>> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made
>> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can
>> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision
>> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say
>> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes
>> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and
>> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively
>> accomplish things.
>>
>> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that
>> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never
>> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all
>> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard
>> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and
>> know the benefits.
>>
>> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do
>> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and
>> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to
>> prove ourselves to the world.
>>
>> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio
>> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this,
>> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to
>> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation
>> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this
>> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department
>> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers,
>> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge
>> yourself and find out what you really are able to do.
>>
>> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training
>> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and
>> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we
>> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't
>> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work
>> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education
>> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently?
>>
>> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are
>> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life
>> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our
>> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of
>> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then,
>> when it comes to choosing a training center.
>>
>> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message
>> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision.
>> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind
>> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how
>> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was
>> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this
>> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds
>> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to
>> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone
>> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the
>> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing
>> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world.
>>
>> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or
>> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my
>> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I
>> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people
>> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of
>> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of
>> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for
>> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived
>> away from home. I have not been back since.
>>
>> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind
>> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and
>> more, and I owe this to a positive training center.
>>
>> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic.
>> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our
>> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own
>> potential.
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>> e%40gmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40
> earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%4
> 0gmail.com
>
--
Jordan Richardson
President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to
repair broken men." ~*Frederick
Douglass*<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/frederickd201574.ht
ml>
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:31:35 -0600
From: Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikPtqGQdP9VE25TArDWVWzS-CKGrsEsv1D2T+NQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi all,
>
> Here's my two cents.
> I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people
> need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also
> believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a
> center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type
> program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I
> am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always
> learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving
> upon the skills we already have.
>
> With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with
> "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has
> the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity
> they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They
> simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other
> community, and use the skills they have learned while they were
> growing up.
>
> I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the
> skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the
> best way to learn something is to teach that something.
>
> I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out
> of your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning
> they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home,
> farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If
> you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This
> will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will
> build confidence in you.
>
> I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these
> skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen
> programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go
> blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right
> into the real world so that they can go to college right after high
> school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and
> contributing to society at large.
>
> To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual.
>
> Your thoughts?
> Respectfully,
> Jordan<bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kirt,
>> Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using
>> apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard
>> good things about them although those individuals were not NFB
>> members.
>>
>> The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one.
>> If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part
>> time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes.
>> Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational
>> activities for students; students can do what they want outside of
>> class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city.
>>
>> Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are
>> one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have
>> a room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course.
>> Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it
>> may not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no
>> restrictions outside of class as to where you can go. Good luck with
>> your decission. Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM
>> To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
>>
>>
>> Bridget, Joe, Darian and all,
>> I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I
>> want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training
>> centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months
>> and I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest
>> any other high quality centers out there that push the same standard
>> of independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be
>> a slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try
>> and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned
>> activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time
>> and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was
>> great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the
>> case. Thoughts?,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Bridgit,
>>>
>>> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing
>>> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because
>>> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view.
>>>
>>> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was
>>> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all
>>> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right
>>> path to independence.
>>> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my
first
>>> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority,
but
>>> the
>>> second reason, to me, still holds a little water.
>>>
>>> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for
>>> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone
>>> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among
>>> Center alumni that makes
>>> people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always
first in
>>> line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never
mind
>>> what
>>> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very
little
>>> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to
NFB
>>> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations,
but
>>> no,
>>> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or
wants
>>> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch
professionals
>>> who
>>> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation
of
>>> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in
>>> uncertain
>>> economies.
>>>
>>> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training
>>> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think
>>> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be
>>> prepared to achieve the same
>>> levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own
>>> across a
>>> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself
across
>>> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that,
though I
>>> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork.
>>> Maybe
>>> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll
convince
>>> a
>>> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities.
Success
>>> is
>>> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center,
>>> you'll
>>> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work
even
>>> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you
and
>>> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would
have
>>> been
>>> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I
read
>>> something like the post below when I graduated from high school.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at
>>> all."--Sam Ewing
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
>>>
>>> Dear List,
>>>
>>> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I
>>> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good
>>> training center to attend.
>>>
>>> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in
>>> the process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you
>>> can do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason
>>> NFB centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is
>>> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for
>>> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the
>>> skills.
>>>
>>> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these
>>> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people
>>> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn
>>> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are
>>> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not
>>> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability
>>> that most gain after at least a six month stint.
>>>
>>> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people
>>> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made
>>> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you
>>> can do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my
>>> vision at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when
>>> people say sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way
>>> this comes across is that vision is still vital to be truly
>>> independent, and that when you have no useable vision, you can not
>>> effectively accomplish things.
>>>
>>> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that
>>> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never
>>> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all
>>> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard
>>> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and
>>> know the benefits.
>>>
>>> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do
>>> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and
>>> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way
>>> to prove ourselves to the world.
>>>
>>> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio
>>> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this,
>>> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to
>>> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation
>>> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this
>>> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department
>>> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers,
>>> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge
>>> yourself and find out what you really are able to do.
>>>
>>> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training
>>> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and
>>> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we
>>> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't
>>> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work
>>> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education
>>> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind
>>> differently?
>>>
>>> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are
>>> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in
>>> life that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our
>>> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No,
>>> of course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking,
>>> then, when it comes to choosing a training center.
>>>
>>> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message
>>> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision.
>>> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind
>>> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how
>>> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was
>>> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this
>>> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds
>>> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to
>>> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone
>>> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the
>>> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing
>>> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world.
>>>
>>> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training
>>> or the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing
>>> my vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do
>>> things, I just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept
>>> what people told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do
>>> a lot of things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before
>>> I knew of the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23,
>>> leaving for training, in a whole other state, was the first time I
>>> truly lived away from home. I have not been back since.
>>>
>>> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind
>>> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and
>>> more, and I owe this to a positive training center.
>>>
>>> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic.
>>> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our
>>> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own
>>> potential.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>>> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydu
>>> de%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>> 0earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jordan Richardson
> President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
> lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to
> repair broken men." ~*Frederick
> Douglass*<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/frederickd201574.
> html>
>
--
Jordan Richardson
President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to
repair broken men." ~*Frederick
Douglass*<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/frederickd201574.ht
ml>
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:29:37 -0700
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] training centers
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimvnOvxoOCaOzi0Uy4dLiGLtU5rhaC66TuthdOX at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I would vote for CCB. BLIND Inc is good too. I have a friend or two
who graduated from BLIND Inc. Not a bad bunch, the BLIND Inc-ers are.
But CCB people are good and I think our director, Julie Deden is the
best. Beth
On 2/8/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
> Hello.
> I am currently in high school but I'm thinking of things I need to do
> in terms of my training.
>
> Thus far I went to BLIND INC. for one summer.
>
> But I think I need more training then jus one summer.
>
> However, both CBVH and my parrents don't seem to like the idea of me
> doing it again.
>
> Would there be any advantage to me going back to a center this year?
>
> Or should I simply wait till I graduate and go to the full 9 month
> program?
>
> Is it worth it since I already went to a youth training program.
>
> Also, what is, in your experience the best training center?
> I already attended BLIND INC., so I'm familiar with them,
> but am open to other ideas.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jorge
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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Message: 29
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:40:48 -0600
From: Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=5Znqpq3QOUaeAb9caMYkmQ5PvtLCSkfZh2YsC at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi all,
Here's my two cents.
I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people
need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe
that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a
center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type
program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am
of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning
new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the
skills we already have.
With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal"
expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right
possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not
necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to
get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use
the skills they have learned while they were growing up.
I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the
skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the
best way to learn something is to teach that something.
I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of
your comfort zone. If one goes out of state for trainning they will
receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther
from their parents who can sometimes be very protective. If you live in
Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force
you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence
in you.
I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these
skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen
programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind
later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the
real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like
their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society
at large.
To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual.
Your thoughts?
Respectfully,
On 8 February 2011 14:18, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Kirt,
> Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using
> apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard
> good things about them although those individuals were not NFB
> members.
>
> The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one.
> If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part
> time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes.
> Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational
> activities for students; students can do what they want outside of
> class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city.
>
> Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are
> one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a
> room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland
> sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be
> comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of
> class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
>
>
> Bridget, Joe, Darian and all,
> I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want
> to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training
> centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and
> I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any
> other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of
> independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a
> slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try
> and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned
> activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time
> and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was
> great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the
> case. Thoughts?,
> Kirt
>
> On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bridgit,
>>
>> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing
>> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because
>> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view.
>>
>> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was
>> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all
>> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right
>> path to independence.
>> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my
first
>> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority,
but the
>> second reason, to me, still holds a little water.
>>
>> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for
>> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone
>> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among
>> Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left
>> out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing
>> what you need to do and never mind what
>> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very
little
>> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to
NFB
>> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations,
but no,
>> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants
>> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch
professionals
>> who
>> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of
>> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in
>> uncertain
>> economies.
>>
>> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training
>> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think
>> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be
>> prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the
>> disadvantage of doing it on your own across a
>> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across
>> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that,
though I
>> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork.
Maybe
>> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll
convince a
>> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities.
Success
>> is
>> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center,
you'll
>> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work
even
>> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you
and
>> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would
have
>> been
>> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read
>> something like the post below when I graduated from high school.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at
>> all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
>>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I
>> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good
>> training center to attend.
>>
>> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the
>> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can
>> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB
>> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is
>> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for
>> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the
>> skills.
>>
>> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these
>> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people
>> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn
>> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are
>> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not
>> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability
>> that most gain after at least a six month stint.
>>
>> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people
>> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made
>> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can
>> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision
>> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say
>> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes
>> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and
>> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively
>> accomplish things.
>>
>> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that
>> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never
>> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all
>> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard
>> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and
>> know the benefits.
>>
>> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do
>> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and
>> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to
>> prove ourselves to the world.
>>
>> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio
>> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this,
>> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to
>> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation
>> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this
>> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department
>> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers,
>> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge
>> yourself and find out what you really are able to do.
>>
>> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training
>> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and
>> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we
>> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't
>> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work
>> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education
>> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently?
>>
>> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are
>> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life
>> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our
>> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of
>> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then,
>> when it comes to choosing a training center.
>>
>> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message
>> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision.
>> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind
>> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how
>> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was
>> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this
>> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds
>> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to
>> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone
>> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the
>> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing
>> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world.
>>
>> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or
>> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my
>> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I
>> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people
>> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of
>> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of
>> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for
>> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived
>> away from home. I have not been back since.
>>
>> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind
>> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and
>> more, and I owe this to a positive training center.
>>
>> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic.
>> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our
>> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own
>> potential.
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>>
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>>
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--
Jordan Richardson
President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to
repair broken men." ~*Frederick
Douglass*<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/frederickd201574.ht
ml>
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