[nabs-l] Training centers

Thu Feb 10 21:36:44 UTC 2011

George,
There may be more to the story.  When I was in Carroll's youth program, 
opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to 
hang out together.  A guy got pretty close to me.  I can't remember whether 
he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking each other.
In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple.
I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low 
expectations.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jorge Paez
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers

Brian:
You can't let centers do that to you.

Its like you're not human.

I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!?

And you still call it good?

On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote:

> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB was 
> that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted girl 
> friend who I met in college.  She came to visit me one weekend and right 
> when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss.  The 
> weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled into 
> my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and grilled 
> for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her.  Meanwhile I hadn't scene her 
> in a month!  I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center people wouldn't 
> have raised hell about that tiny issue!
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" 
> <nabs.president at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>
>
> Hi again,
>
> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB
> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it
> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind
> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have
> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are
> recently losing more vision.
>
> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers
> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating
> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not
> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play
> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are
> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs.
> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB
> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no
> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student
> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the
> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be
> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is
> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a
>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person.
>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone
>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in
>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully
>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many
>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana
>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the
>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and
>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a
>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think
>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center
>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood
>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation
>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel
>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas,
>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals,
>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more
>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these
>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge
>> gap.
>>
>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in
>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your
>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and
>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time
>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some
>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to
>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time
>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB;
>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule).
>>
>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB
>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an
>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are
>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a
>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being
>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great
>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I
>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good
>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And,
>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than
>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell"
>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school,
>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the
>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none
>> at all.
>>
>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think
>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their
>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted,
>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the
>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had
>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and
>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in
>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm,
>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also
>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the
>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us
>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we
>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ
>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear
>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care
>> about the students and their progress even after graduation.
>>
>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel.
>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction
>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the
>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a
>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my
>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a
>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I
>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel
>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated
>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going
>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much
>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most
>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a
>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I
>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and
>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell
>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time
>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding
>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor
>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was
>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I
>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal
>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked
>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk
>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to
>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a
>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to
>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there
>> was nothing to be so worried about.
>>
>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in
>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even
>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair
>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't
>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More
>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more
>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before
>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at
>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or
>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I
>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my
>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without
>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I
>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my
>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross
>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would
>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB
>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with
>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I
>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with
>> instructors and by myself.
>>
>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a
>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can
>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center
>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life
>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe
>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring
>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can
>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their
>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens,
>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning
>> out competent, self-reliant graduates.
>>
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Kirt,
>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you
>>> well,
>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to
>>> attend
>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to 
>>> get
>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into
>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like 
>>> you
>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends
>>> are
>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live 
>>> in
>>> a
>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert
>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two
>>> sense.
>>> Anmol
>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>> breeze
>>> among flowers.
>>> Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM
>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all,
>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community
>>>> outside the center?
>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make
>>>> sense.
>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in
>>>> mind I'm not
>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the
>>>> training
>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind
>>>> people.
>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for
>>>> me. I'm probably
>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a
>>>> blind
>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't
>>>> blind. So, with
>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get
>>>> involved in the
>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right
>>>> for me.
>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I
>>>> choose to
>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer
>>>> programs,
>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc?
>>>> Because I think
>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in
>>>> a "blind
>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with
>>>> center
>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other
>>>> opportunities I
>>>> might find living away from home for such a long
>>>> time. Don't get me
>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a
>>>> great time.
>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on
>>>> my own like
>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone?
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to
>>>> learn the
>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it
>>>> easier. Tara, I
>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in
>>>> Daytona Beach,
>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of
>>>> rules such
>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by
>>>> wing, and there
>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind
>>>> people are treated
>>>> > like people.
>>>> > Beth
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: Tara Annis <TAnnis at afb.net
>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500
>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers
>>>> >
>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between
>>>> semesters at
>>>> > college. I attended the school for the
>>>> blind and also took
>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so
>>>> would like
>>>> > to provide some insight.
>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and
>>>> have above
>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to
>>>> the NFB center,
>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations.
>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people
>>>> could walk
>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten
>>>> miles. I
>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M
>>>> instructor had
>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or
>>>> less. I thought
>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any
>>>> new place they
>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone.
>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal
>>>> grill.
>>>> > Some observations:
>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the
>>>> medication
>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in
>>>> the real world,
>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds?
>>>> >
>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as
>>>> you showed up to
>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long
>>>> as you
>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you
>>>> should be treated
>>>> > like them.
>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it.
>>>> >
>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go
>>>> for lunch.
>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't
>>>> need to make sure
>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You
>>>> didn't need to
>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of
>>>> it. At other
>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be
>>>> caught using a
>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore
>>>> dark glasses when
>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't
>>>> look into
>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared
>>>> at by the public.
>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact.
>>>> >
>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the
>>>> public can
>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand
>>>> blindness. I have
>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying
>>>> to blind people
>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and
>>>> that they
>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so
>>>> well. Yet, the
>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run
>>>> into
>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind
>>>> person to feel
>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a
>>>> blind person
>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling.
>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an
>>>> intermediate
>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness,
>>>> and just
>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Arielle Silverman
>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>> Email:
>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>> Website:
>> www.nabslink.org
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
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