[nabs-l] Training centers

Thu Feb 10 22:14:57 UTC 2011

I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but looking 
back now, I think it was rather funny.

Jen
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers

> George,
> There may be more to the story.  When I was in Carroll's youth program, 
> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to 
> hang out together.  A guy got pretty close to me.  I can't remember 
> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking each 
> other.
> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple.
> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low 
> expectations.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jorge Paez
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>
> Brian:
> You can't let centers do that to you.
>
> Its like you're not human.
>
> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!?
>
> And you still call it good?
>
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote:
>
>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB was 
>> that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted girl 
>> friend who I met in college.  She came to visit me one weekend and right 
>> when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss. 
>> The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled 
>> into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and 
>> grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her.  Meanwhile I hadn't 
>> scene her in a month!  I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center 
>> people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue!
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" 
>> <nabs.president at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>>
>>
>> Hi again,
>>
>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB
>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it
>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind
>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have
>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are
>> recently losing more vision.
>>
>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers
>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating
>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not
>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play
>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are
>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs.
>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB
>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no
>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student
>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the
>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be
>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is
>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion.
>>
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a
>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person.
>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone
>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in
>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully
>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many
>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana
>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the
>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and
>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a
>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think
>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center
>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood
>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation
>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel
>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas,
>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals,
>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more
>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these
>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge
>>> gap.
>>>
>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in
>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your
>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and
>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time
>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some
>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to
>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time
>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB;
>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule).
>>>
>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB
>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an
>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are
>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a
>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being
>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great
>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I
>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good
>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And,
>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than
>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell"
>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school,
>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the
>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none
>>> at all.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think
>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their
>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted,
>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the
>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had
>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and
>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in
>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm,
>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also
>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the
>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us
>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we
>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ
>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear
>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care
>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation.
>>>
>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel.
>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction
>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the
>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a
>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my
>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a
>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I
>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel
>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated
>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going
>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much
>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most
>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a
>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I
>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and
>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell
>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time
>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding
>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor
>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was
>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I
>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal
>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked
>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk
>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to
>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a
>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to
>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there
>>> was nothing to be so worried about.
>>>
>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in
>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even
>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair
>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't
>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More
>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more
>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before
>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at
>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or
>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I
>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my
>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without
>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I
>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my
>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross
>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would
>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB
>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with
>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I
>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with
>>> instructors and by myself.
>>>
>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a
>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can
>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center
>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life
>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe
>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring
>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can
>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their
>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens,
>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning
>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates.
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Kirt,
>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you
>>>> well,
>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to
>>>> attend
>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to 
>>>> get
>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into
>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like 
>>>> you
>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends
>>>> are
>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live 
>>>> in
>>>> a
>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their 
>>>> comfert
>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two
>>>> sense.
>>>> Anmol
>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. 
>>>> Perhaps
>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>> breeze
>>>> among flowers.
>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM
>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all,
>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community
>>>>> outside the center?
>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make
>>>>> sense.
>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in
>>>>> mind I'm not
>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the
>>>>> training
>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind
>>>>> people.
>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for
>>>>> me. I'm probably
>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a
>>>>> blind
>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't
>>>>> blind. So, with
>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get
>>>>> involved in the
>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right
>>>>> for me.
>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I
>>>>> choose to
>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer
>>>>> programs,
>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc?
>>>>> Because I think
>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in
>>>>> a "blind
>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with
>>>>> center
>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other
>>>>> opportunities I
>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long
>>>>> time. Don't get me
>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a
>>>>> great time.
>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on
>>>>> my own like
>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone?
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to
>>>>> learn the
>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it
>>>>> easier. Tara, I
>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in
>>>>> Daytona Beach,
>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of
>>>>> rules such
>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by
>>>>> wing, and there
>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind
>>>>> people are treated
>>>>> > like people.
>>>>> > Beth
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> > From: Tara Annis <TAnnis at afb.net
>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500
>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between
>>>>> semesters at
>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the
>>>>> blind and also took
>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so
>>>>> would like
>>>>> > to provide some insight.
>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and
>>>>> have above
>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to
>>>>> the NFB center,
>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations.
>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people
>>>>> could walk
>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten
>>>>> miles. I
>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M
>>>>> instructor had
>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or
>>>>> less. I thought
>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any
>>>>> new place they
>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone.
>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal
>>>>> grill.
>>>>> > Some observations:
>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the
>>>>> medication
>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in
>>>>> the real world,
>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as
>>>>> you showed up to
>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long
>>>>> as you
>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you
>>>>> should be treated
>>>>> > like them.
>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go
>>>>> for lunch.
>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't
>>>>> need to make sure
>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You
>>>>> didn't need to
>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of
>>>>> it. At other
>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be
>>>>> caught using a
>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore
>>>>> dark glasses when
>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't
>>>>> look into
>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared
>>>>> at by the public.
>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the
>>>>> public can
>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand
>>>>> blindness. I have
>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying
>>>>> to blind people
>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and
>>>>> that they
>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so
>>>>> well. Yet, the
>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run
>>>>> into
>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind
>>>>> person to feel
>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a
>>>>> blind person
>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling.
>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an
>>>>> intermediate
>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness,
>>>>> and just
>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> > for nabs-l:
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>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>> > nabs-l:
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>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arielle Silverman
>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>>> Email:
>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>> Website:
>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Arielle Silverman
>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>> Email:
>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>> Website:
>> www.nabslink.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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