[nabs-l] Training centers

Thu Feb 10 23:03:08 UTC 2011

Yes, the independent living Transition program.

Jen
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
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Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative
freespirit328 at gmail.com
401-644-5607

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers

> Jennifer,
> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath 
> had a mock wedding. I
> don't think it was you though.  Which adult program were you at? The 
> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I 
> think.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jennifer Aberdeen
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>
> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but 
> looking
> back now, I think it was rather funny.
>
> Jen
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products!
> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen
>
> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative
> freespirit328 at gmail.com
> 401-644-5607
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>
>
>> George,
>> There may be more to the story.  When I was in Carroll's youth program, 
>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to 
>> hang out together.  A guy got pretty close to me.  I can't remember 
>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking 
>> each other.
>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple.
>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low 
>> expectations.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Jorge Paez
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>>
>> Brian:
>> You can't let centers do that to you.
>>
>> Its like you're not human.
>>
>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!?
>>
>> And you still call it good?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote:
>>
>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB 
>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted 
>>> girl friend who I met in college.  She came to visit me one weekend and 
>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and 
>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was 
>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at 
>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her.  Meanwhile I 
>>> hadn't scene her in a month!  I'm sure if this would've been an NFB 
>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue!
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" 
>>> <nabs.president at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi again,
>>>
>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB
>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it
>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind
>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have
>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are
>>> recently losing more vision.
>>>
>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers
>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating
>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not
>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play
>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are
>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs.
>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB
>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no
>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student
>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the
>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be
>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is
>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion.
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a
>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person.
>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone
>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in
>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully
>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many
>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana
>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the
>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and
>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a
>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think
>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center
>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood
>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation
>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel
>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas,
>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals,
>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more
>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these
>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge
>>>> gap.
>>>>
>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in
>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your
>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and
>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time
>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some
>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to
>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time
>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB;
>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule).
>>>>
>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB
>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an
>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are
>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a
>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being
>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great
>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I
>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good
>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And,
>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than
>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell"
>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school,
>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the
>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none
>>>> at all.
>>>>
>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think
>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their
>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted,
>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the
>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had
>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and
>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in
>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm,
>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also
>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the
>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us
>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we
>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ
>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear
>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care
>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation.
>>>>
>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel.
>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction
>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the
>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a
>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my
>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a
>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I
>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel
>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated
>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going
>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much
>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most
>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a
>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I
>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and
>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell
>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time
>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding
>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor
>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was
>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I
>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal
>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked
>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk
>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to
>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a
>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to
>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there
>>>> was nothing to be so worried about.
>>>>
>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in
>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even
>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair
>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't
>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More
>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more
>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before
>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at
>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or
>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I
>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my
>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without
>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I
>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my
>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross
>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would
>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB
>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with
>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I
>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with
>>>> instructors and by myself.
>>>>
>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a
>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can
>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center
>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life
>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe
>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring
>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can
>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their
>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens,
>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning
>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates.
>>>>
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you
>>>>> well,
>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to
>>>>> attend
>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to 
>>>>> get
>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall 
>>>>> into
>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like 
>>>>> you
>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends
>>>>> are
>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live 
>>>>> in
>>>>> a
>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their 
>>>>> comfert
>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two
>>>>> sense.
>>>>> Anmol
>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. 
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>> breeze
>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM
>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all,
>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community
>>>>>> outside the center?
>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make
>>>>>> sense.
>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in
>>>>>> mind I'm not
>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the
>>>>>> training
>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for
>>>>>> me. I'm probably
>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't
>>>>>> blind. So, with
>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get
>>>>>> involved in the
>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right
>>>>>> for me.
>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I
>>>>>> choose to
>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer
>>>>>> programs,
>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc?
>>>>>> Because I think
>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in
>>>>>> a "blind
>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with
>>>>>> center
>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other
>>>>>> opportunities I
>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long
>>>>>> time. Don't get me
>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a
>>>>>> great time.
>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on
>>>>>> my own like
>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone?
>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to
>>>>>> learn the
>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it
>>>>>> easier. Tara, I
>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in
>>>>>> Daytona Beach,
>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of
>>>>>> rules such
>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by
>>>>>> wing, and there
>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind
>>>>>> people are treated
>>>>>> > like people.
>>>>>> > Beth
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis <TAnnis at afb.net
>>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500
>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between
>>>>>> semesters at
>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the
>>>>>> blind and also took
>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so
>>>>>> would like
>>>>>> > to provide some insight.
>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and
>>>>>> have above
>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to
>>>>>> the NFB center,
>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations.
>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people
>>>>>> could walk
>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten
>>>>>> miles. I
>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M
>>>>>> instructor had
>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or
>>>>>> less. I thought
>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any
>>>>>> new place they
>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone.
>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal
>>>>>> grill.
>>>>>> > Some observations:
>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the
>>>>>> medication
>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in
>>>>>> the real world,
>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as
>>>>>> you showed up to
>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long
>>>>>> as you
>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you
>>>>>> should be treated
>>>>>> > like them.
>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go
>>>>>> for lunch.
>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't
>>>>>> need to make sure
>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You
>>>>>> didn't need to
>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of
>>>>>> it. At other
>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be
>>>>>> caught using a
>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore
>>>>>> dark glasses when
>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't
>>>>>> look into
>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared
>>>>>> at by the public.
>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the
>>>>>> public can
>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand
>>>>>> blindness. I have
>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying
>>>>>> to blind people
>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and
>>>>>> that they
>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so
>>>>>> well. Yet, the
>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind
>>>>>> person to feel
>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a
>>>>>> blind person
>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling.
>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an
>>>>>> intermediate
>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness,
>>>>>> and just
>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
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>>>>>> > nabs-l:
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>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>>>> Email:
>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>> Website:
>>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Arielle Silverman
>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>>> Email:
>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>> Website:
>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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