[nabs-l] unemployment rate

Tue Feb 15 07:32:52 UTC 2011

Antonio,
  I really should be asleep...but I guess the list's just too
adicting.  :)  Yes...I am blind, so it's a little more than a "mere
curiosity."...I'm curious because I want to know how much, if at all,
the deck's stacked against me if I'm planning on working outside the
blindness field.  And as for your other suggestions about gathering
data about the variety of professions in which blind people work...by
all means, I'm all for it.  It's certainly a worthwhile idea.  I'd
merely suggest that the number of blind people working in the
blindness field is a good place to start looking...as that's where
most of the successfully employed blind people I know happen to work.
  Best,
Kirt

On 2/15/11, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. <freethaught at gmail.com> wrote:
> Kirt,
>
> While I agree with you that blindness alone should be considered in
> determining employment rates for blind people, I believe you may be holding
> too dearly to the blind professionals in the blindness-related work factor.
>
> It appears to me that this is slightly beyond a mere curiosity on your part.
>
> Let's measure employment for the blind, taking into consideration people who
> are blind-only.
>
> Why not measure the percentage of blind professionals in various positions
> while we're at it.
>
> It shouldn't be hard to take standard methods of economic research and data
> gathering and apply it to our population.
>
> Isn't this sort of thing why the Jernigan Institute was founded?
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2011, at 11:52 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
>> Arielle,
>>  Fair enough- I commend those of you who choose to do so.  (and I
>> want to, just not as much)  But what fraction of the employed
>> "successful" blind community are actively part of blind consumer
>> organizations?  And...is that the main factor in determining whether
>> or not a blind person is employed in the blindness field?
>>  All the best to all of you,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 2/14/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I think it's important to remember that those of us who are NFB
>>> members have much of our contact with other NFB members and many NFB
>>> members choose to work in blindness rehabilitation or education
>>> because they are drawn to helping resolve the social obstacles that
>>> blind people face. It's entirely possible that the majority of the
>>> blind people who don't join a blindness organization choose not to
>>> work in the blindness field. In fact, some blind people go so far as
>>> to avoid all contact with the blind community. One of my only blind
>>> role models growing up was an attorney who repeatedly told me that the
>>> best thing I could do for myself was to rise above my blindness and
>>> connect with other blind people as little as possible. It apparently
>>> worked for him as he is an intelligent, successful, happily married
>>> man, but I know that's certainly not the way for all of us. Those of
>>> us who choose to join organizations do so in large part because we
>>> want to affiliate with and reach out to other blind people, so
>>> naturally those of us who join consumer organizations will be more
>>> likely to find employment in the blindness field.
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 2/14/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Kirt,
>>>> You raise some really good points and I happen to totally agree with
>>>> you.
>>>> I
>>>> think now with unemployment in general being high, unemployment amongest
>>>> the
>>>> blind is higher then 70 percent. The 70 percent was the unemployment in
>>>> the
>>>> 1990s and early 2000s when the national employment was at about 4 to 5
>>>> percent. Of the 20 percent of blind people who are employment half or
>>>> more
>>>> are working in a non-main stream environment meaning blindness pesific
>>>> or
>>>> disability pesific agency or serving people who are eather blind or
>>>> disabled. Others go through a special training to directly related to
>>>> their
>>>> blindness in order to work in a main-stream organization. For example,
>>>> those
>>>> who are working for the IRS are working for a main-stream organization,
>>>> but
>>>> most have gone through a special training at Lions World Services for
>>>> the
>>>> Blind in order to do their job. The problem I  see is that how many
>>>> blind
>>>> people can go to work for the Division Services for the Blind or the
>>>> Indistry for the Blind?
>>>> You are also correct in that we must consider that some have more then
>>>> just
>>>> blind as a disability which effects  their ability to hold a job. We
>>>> have
>>>> been discussing such issues in one of my class. However, I see to many
>>>> perfectly fine people who's disability is only blindness waste away good
>>>> potential.
>>>> I could on all night discussing this, but these are just my thoughts for
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>> Anmol
>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>> breeze
>>>> among flowers.
>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Date: Monday, February 14, 2011, 2:56 PM
>>>>> Sean,
>>>>>   I'd like to point out a few things.
>>>>>   First...other disabilities, particularly severe
>>>>> cognative
>>>>> disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job
>>>>> eligability.  I
>>>>> don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it
>>>>> is.  I
>>>>> know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who
>>>>> happen to be
>>>>> blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as
>>>>> people, I am
>>>>> fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a
>>>>> person's ability
>>>>> to work.  That's why I'm curious what the unemployment
>>>>> rate is for
>>>>> people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those
>>>>> people, other
>>>>> severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in
>>>>> their
>>>>> unemployed status.
>>>>>   As for the question about blind people working in
>>>>> the blindness
>>>>> field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was
>>>>> implying that was
>>>>> inferior.  I'm just curious because that's where most
>>>>> blind people I
>>>>> know work.  Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally
>>>>> blind person in
>>>>> my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness
>>>>> field...so
>>>>> I think it's a legitimate question.  It's like if I
>>>>> were to ask what
>>>>> percentage of the American working population works in,
>>>>> say, the
>>>>> lobbying business.  That, to me, does not imply the
>>>>> inferiority or
>>>>> superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm
>>>>> interested to
>>>>> know how many employed blind people have jobs in the
>>>>> blindness field.
>>>>> Do you see my point?  I just want to know because I'm
>>>>> a blind person
>>>>> and most blind people I know work primarily with other
>>>>> blind
>>>>> people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show
>>>>> how many
>>>>> blind people work outside of the blindness arena.
>>>>> That's all, I just
>>>>> want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job
>>>>> in the field
>>>>> of blindness and I want to see where that puts me,
>>>>> percentage-wise.
>>>>> In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone.
>>>>>   All the best,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> People who are not actively looking for employment are
>>>>> considered not to be
>>>>>> part of the labor force.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of
>>>>> nonparticipation is vastly
>>>>>> higher than the rate that would apply to only those,
>>>>> say, under 65.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blind people with other disabilities are blind people
>>>>> too, so why shouldn't
>>>>>> we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities
>>>>> count in the general
>>>>>> unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates.
>>>>> Sure, you could figure
>>>>>> out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and
>>>>> have no other
>>>>>> disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could
>>>>> also find the rate for
>>>>>> the blind people who have no additional disability, a
>>>>> college degree and
>>>>>> IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand
>>>>> selecting who you are
>>>>>> looking at and ignore the population as a whole.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are
>>>>> 25 million blind or
>>>>>> visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has
>>>>> 50,000 members.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, related to the initial post, why does it
>>>>> matter how many of the
>>>>>> blind people with jobs work in the blindness field?
>>>>> That hearkens back to
>>>>>> the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser
>>>>> jobs. Yes, it may be
>>>>>> easier to get them because you are working with and
>>>>> being hired by people
>>>>>> who have experience with blindness, and are therefore
>>>>> less likely to be
>>>>>> freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor
>>>>> are those who do them
>>>>>> less successful people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take
>>>>> them for what they're
>>>>>> worth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arielle Silverman
>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>>> Email:
>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>> Website:
>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>
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>>
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