[nabs-l] Philosophy in society

[Anmol Bhatia]

Hello Kirt,
There is know need to ve to appologize since pretty much everything you said in your previous email is mostly true. I just commend you for having the courage to speak t
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Sun, 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 8:32 PM
> To all,
>   I have to appologize for my last email.  Most
> blind people, even the
> ones that frustrate me to no end, deserve more respect than
> I just
> gave.  I can only think of a few to whom all my last
> blanket
> statements apply.
>   Best,
> Kirt
> 
> On 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Serena,
> >   Absolutely.  I'm talking about
> those whose only diagnosed disability
> > is blindness.  But certainly their sense of
> entitlement, laziness, low
> > expectations and nonexistent work ethics could all be
> considered
> > disabilities, in their own right.
> >
> > On 2/27/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> >> Hi Kirt,
> >>
> >> I agree ... I know plenty of blind people (not on
> this list) who could
> >> definitely use better social skills.  Keep in
> mind, though, many blind
> >> people who only talk about blindness may have
> additional disabilities
> >> that
> >> make social interaction difficult.  I know
> plenty of these.
> >>
> >> Serena
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Kirt Manwaring
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:07 AM
> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society
> >>
> >> Arielle,
> >>   I really shouldn't beat a dead
> horse senseless.  But here I go again.
> >> :)
> >>   I suppose, strictly speaking,
> you're right.  To each his/her own.
> >> But I know plenty of blind people, a
> disproportionately large number,
> >> who don't know how to interact with the sighted
> public.  Their lives
> >> are blindness.  And they don't ever interact
> with anything, or anyone
> >> else.  It's no wonder, then, that we as a
> blind community sometimes
> >> get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive,
> and even eletist.
> >> Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing
> about blindness, and I
> >> were to meet at random one of the blind people who
> I currently
> >> know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed
> enough to think of
> >> them as an equal.  Because, let's face it,
> too many blind people have
> >> been told their whole lives they can't succeed in
> the sighted world.
> >> And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra,
> (maybe explicitly
> >> spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know
> how to handle
> >> themselves with sighted people when they need
> to.  I think we all know
> >> a good number of blind people who fit the
> description I just gave.  I
> >> know far too many.  So, on that front, I rest
> my case.
> >>   Now let's move on to the other
> issues you raised.  For those blind
> >> people who want blindness to basically be their
> whole identity...fine.
> >>  It's not my place to say they shouldn't do
> that.  It's certainly good
> >> to see qualified blind people working as cane
> travel instructors,
> >> braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc.  And
> I have just as much
> >> respect for a blind husband and wife as I would
> for a sighted couple,
> >> all other factors being equal, provided the blind
> spouses both have
> >> the skills they need to independently manage a
> marriage and, if they
> >> so choose, a family.
> >>   That being said, I've taken a lot
> of heat from lots of blind people
> >> for not being "involved" enough.  Never mind
> I'm in school, I have a
> >> social life at school, and I have lots of other
> things I want to do
> >> outside the blind community.  As I've said,
> I'm not going to judge
> >> people who make the blind community their primary
> social network.  I
> >> only ask for that to go both ways.  Blindness
> is not me, I just happen
> >> to be blind along with all the plethora of other
> things that help
> >> define me.  Unfortunately, often times I
> don't get the same respect
> >> I'm trying to give.  Y'all do your thing,
> I'll do mine.  And let's all
> >> be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring
> to the table.  You
> >> may choose to live your life primarily with blind
> people, more power
> >> to you!  I choose not to, and all I want is
> that same courtesy.
> >>   Best,
> >> Kirt
> >> P.S.  Arielle, that was in no way directed
> against you.  Just...some
> >> of my frustrations about some other people came
> out.  I'm not meaning
> >> to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive
> me if it sounded
> >> that way.
> >>
> >> On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Hi Kurt and all,
> >>>
> >>> I agree with Darian. Just because someone
> talks about blindness stuff
> >>> a lot with their blind friends doesn't
> necessarily mean they will have
> >>> similarly narrow conversation when with
> sighted people. Being a part
> >>> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews)
> I can attest that my
> >>> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness
> and my Jewish friends
> >>> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't
> talk about the blindness
> >>> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa.
> I also tend to talk
> >>> about psychology a lot with my grad student
> and faculty colleagues. I
> >>> don't even think it's a problem if someone's
> primary identity is
> >>> blindness, they work in the blindness field
> and they marry a blind
> >>> person, as long as they're able to get along
> OK with sighted
> >>> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they
> need to. Some of us
> >>> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or
> multiple social communities
> >>> but others are perfectly content with a few
> friends or one main
> >>> community and I don't think it's our place to
> pass judgment on these
> >>> people. I can understand the concerns about
> our public image, but
> >>> again I think that boils down to how well the
> blind person is able to
> >>> interact with sighted people when they need
> to. I think we should make
> >>> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted
> people around us, but we
> >>> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as
> our friends.
> >>>
> >>> Arielle
> >>>
> >>> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> So very true.
> >>>>
> >>>> I remember being in the Mall Of America,
> >>>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of
> the councelers on a
> >>>> rolercoaster,
> >>>> and they tried to force an adult
> administrator to go with us.
> >>>>
> >>>> Councelors fought it out and won that one
> though,
> >>>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones.
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a
> plane--the flight attendance that
> >> is,
> >>>> said my cane had to be stored in the
> overhead because it could "be used
> >> as
> >>>> a
> >>>> weapon."
> >>>>
> >>>> Jorge
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Interesting essay: We all run into
> stories like that. I know, people
> >> just
> >>>>> don't understand about blindness.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com
> >>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011
> 18:02:23 -0600
> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in
> society
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> It is a total drag when people
> want to only talk about your
> >>>>> blindness--
> >>>>>> as though you have nothing to
> offer.  I try to view these moments
> >>>>> as
> >>>>>> educational opportunities.  I
> kindly and diplomatically explain,
> >>>>> to the
> >>>>>> best of my abilities, how blind
> people "do" things.  I try to
> >>>>> answer
> >>>>>> questions, but then turn the
> conversation around to discuss other
> >>>>>> matters.  Find opportunities
> in conversations to change the
> >>>>> discussion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> It is not always easy.  I do
> think it is perfectly acceptable to,
> >>>>> in a
> >>>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that
> blind people have other
> >>>>> interest.  Ask
> >>>>>> the person questions so a
> back-and-forth begins.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that
> exemplifies this discussion, I
> >>>>> think.
> >>>>>> There is a section with some
> strong language so if you do not
> >>>>> enjoy
> >>>>>> strong language, you may want to
> skip this.  It is only a small
> >>>>> section
> >>>>>> that includes the language. 
> Enjoy.  *smile*
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The Event of the Century
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I
> cane along the Fuddrucker's
> >>>>> building
> >>>>>> with my long white cane searching
> for the door.  My friends do
> >>>>> the same
> >>>>>> with their canes.  The scent
> of grease filters through the chill
> >>>>> air.
> >>>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a
> hamburger joint.  We are cold,
> >>>>> and we
> >>>>>> are hungry.  Finding the
> door, we all scurry inside.  We are
> >>>>> seven
> >>>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a
> good time-we all happen to be
> >>>>> blind.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap
> our white canes investigating
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> restaurant.  Ross, my
> husband, and I find a wall and follow it
> >>>>> with our
> >>>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth
> against the wall.  "Hey guys," I
> >>>>> call out,
> >>>>>> "I believe this is the
> counter."  The click of cane tips echoes
> >>>>> from all
> >>>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra,
> Jamie and Carol find their way
> >>>>> to the
> >>>>>> counter.  Since the menu is
> not available in Braille, I ask the
> >>>>> cashier
> >>>>>> to please read the choices out
> loud.  Ross and I order as our
> >>>>> friends
> >>>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see
> often, decide what sounds best.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the
> soda fountain.  Ice chinks into
> >>>>> a cup
> >>>>>> and I follow the sound.  I
> encounter an island separating the
> >>>>> soda
> >>>>>> fountain from where I stand. 
> Pausing for a second, I determine
> >>>>> which
> >>>>>> direction to walk around the
> island, but before I can take
> >>>>> another step,
> >>>>>> a stranger approaches me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "No thanks.  I'm just going
> to fill my cup," I say. As I step
> >>>>> around the
> >>>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can
> tell she is hesitating.  Before I
> >>>>> know
> >>>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of
> my coat and yanks me around the
> >>>>>> island.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "It's this way," she says .
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction
> I was moving in, ma'am."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The stranger pauses again as my
> friends move past looking for an
> >>>>> open
> >>>>>> table. "Where is your companion?"
> she asks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults,
> we don't have a companion."  I
> >>>>> follow
> >>>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger
> alone to ponder the miracle
> >>>>> happening
> >>>>>> before her eyes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "The freak show's out. 
> Everyone should grab their camera," Audra
> >>>>> says
> >>>>>> as I approach the table.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't
> mean to be rude, but we are all
> >>>>> use to
> >>>>>> this reaction when in
> public.  The amazing blind people who have
> >>>>> left
> >>>>>> the security of their homes! 
> Yes, I am cynical, but this has
> >>>>> always
> >>>>>> been a part of my character. 
> Encountering ridiculous ideas and
> >>>>> outdated
> >>>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a
> daily basis, keeps my cynicism
> >>>>> fresh.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Eight years ago I would never have
> thought the hardest part of
> >>>>> being
> >>>>>> blind was dealing with society's
> perceptions and attitudes.  I
> >>>>> very
> >>>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness,
> and it is a part of who I am.
> >>>>> I
> >>>>>> accept it just as I accept the
> color of my hair or my inability
> >>>>> to solve
> >>>>>> a math equation quickly.  I
> am no more amazing than anyone else,
> >>>>> but
> >>>>>> because I do things without
> vision, it suddenly makes me
> >>>>> exceptional.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> It is difficult to be around
> people, not because I am blind, but
> >>>>> because
> >>>>>> others usually have problems
> accepting me as a person and not as
> >>>>> a blind
> >>>>>> person.  Sometimes, I would
> rather spend time with children
> >>>>> because they
> >>>>>> have an inate ability to trust and
> not doubt because of a
> >>>>> perceived
> >>>>>> reality.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> My favorite past time these days
> is spending time with my nephew
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>> nieces.  I must have the baby
> bug or something-- the biological
> >>>>> clock
> >>>>>> and all.  They bring joy to
> my life, and yes, I must admit, I
> >>>>> talk
> >>>>>> endlessly about them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too
> smart for his own good.  Chloe is
> >>>>> five and
> >>>>>> extremely independent, but she
> loves with her whole heart.
> >>>>> Kensley is
> >>>>>> two, and she has the sweetest
> temperament, but every now and
> >>>>> then, she
> >>>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer
> in her eyes.  Penny is one and
> >>>>> full of
> >>>>>> energy, but I have become a
> surrogate mother to her. I have
> >>>>> watched them
> >>>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real
> people, and it is through them
> >>>>> I see
> >>>>>> where the future can lie.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I am often met with dubious stares
> and hesitant concerns when
> >>>>> people
> >>>>>> find out that I frequently watch
> my nephew and nieces.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "How could you watch children?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Isn't it difficult?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Can blind people do that?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly,
> and depending on my mood, I
> >>>>> respond
> >>>>>> accordingly.  I do not
> believe how insulting people can be.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> When I take the kids to the park
> or the mall or on a walk, people
> >>>>>> usually think the kids are guiding
> me around.  Yes, a
> >>>>> seven-year-old,
> >>>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a
> baby guide me.  We would all be
> >>>>> dead.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I wonder if people think about
> what they say.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The kids never question my
> abilities.  Blindness is normal to
> >>>>> them.  My
> >>>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden,
> Chloe, Kensley and Penny.  We
> >>>>> think
> >>>>>> children have mental limitations,
> but they understand what adults
> >>>>> can
> >>>>>> not.  My babies accept me and
> do not doubt their safety with me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Caiden loves to play video
> games.  I think he is a bit young for
> >>>>> this,
> >>>>>> but what do adults know,
> right?  If allowed, he would play all
> >>>>> day long.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Once, my mom was watching the
> kids, and in an attempt to get
> >>>>> Caiden to
> >>>>>> stop the game and play outside,
> she told him, "If you play too
> >>>>> many
> >>>>>> video games you will go blind."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma,
> it's not a big deal to be blind.
> >>>>> Look
> >>>>>> at Aunt Bridgy."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> With these words, I realize the
> impact I have on my nephew and
> >>>>> nieces.
> >>>>>> They are the beginning of a
> generation that can break the
> >>>>> stereotypes
> >>>>>> about blindness.  The efforts
> I make seem so small, but through
> >>>>> these
> >>>>>> children, I know the effect is
> lasting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to
> walking around with her eyes closed
> >>>>> because
> >>>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt
> Bridgy." Every time she is at my
> >>>>> house, she
> >>>>>> insists on using a white cane to
> walk around with.  She is also
> >>>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants
> to learn this tactile form of
> >>>>> print.
> >>>>>> Every where she goes, she points
> out signs that have Braille on
> >>>>> them.
> >>>>>> She has no fear.  To Chloe,
> blindness is just another way to
> >>>>> "be."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Children are not caught up in
> their perceptions, but will believe
> >>>>> what
> >>>>>> you tell them at face value. 
> Exposure to me has allowed my
> >>>>> nephew and
> >>>>>> nieces to learn and understand
> that life does not stop after
> >>>>> blindness.
> >>>>>> Diversity is wide, and children
> accept people for who they are.
> >>>>> My
> >>>>>> children accept me as capable and
> confident-the way they view
> >>>>> other
> >>>>>> adults in their lives.  In
> their eyes, I am no different, and
> >>>>> there is
> >>>>>> no thought of limitations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Kensley and Penny are still
> grasping the fact that I do not
> >>>>> respond to
> >>>>>> visual cues, like nodding their
> heads.  Both have quickly
> >>>>> adjusted to
> >>>>>> finding other means in which to
> express their wants. When wanting
> >>>>> to be
> >>>>>> held, they come to me and place
> their arms around my legs.  When
> >>>>> they
> >>>>>> want to show me something like a
> toy, they place it in my hands.
> >>>>> Kensley
> >>>>>> and Penny do not question my
> ability to care for them.  To them,
> >>>>> I am
> >>>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security,
> and of course I am food!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to
> the back of their clothing so I
> >>>>> know
> >>>>>> where they are, but usually their
> gibber-gabber gives their
> >>>>> location
> >>>>>> away.  As Penny and Kensley
> learn to speak, they will understand
> >>>>> that