[nabs-l] waver

[Marc Workman]

I wasn't going to say anything, but Sean has motivated me.

SW,
Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
extra work not required of other students.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there 
somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

MW,
Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could have.  How 
about:

Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
extra work not required of other students.
Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, solely 
because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above version. 
Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two cases are 
not the same.

Being a woman, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
extra work not required of other students.
Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, solely 
because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

Besides, of course we shouldn't have to do things that are unfair.  I'm not 
sure exactly what you mean by fair/unfair, but I have in mind something like 
just/unjust.  Saying we should have to do things that are unfair is like 
saying we should have to do things that are unjust.  We certainly do have to 
do things that are unfair/unjust, particularly because we live in an unjust 
world, but this doesn't mean we should have to do these things.

The point I would make is that a college that requires all students to take 
very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree has been 
badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only sighted 
students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, it's unjust, 
and it should be challenged.  Do you think it is common to require a music 
appreciation class at Gallaudet University? Imagine there were a university 
for the blind, would it make sense to require these highly visual courses? 
My guess is you will say yes because a lot can be learned from taking 
courses like this, math, biology, art history, etc.  I agree, but I'm also 
sure that if Gallaudet required a music appreciation course, and if this 
blind university required an art history course, the courses would be 
designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students wouldn't be forced 
to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of the people who 
designed the course/curriculum.

SW,
If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The 
"when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

MW,
If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, in all its 
forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to do extra 
work simply because they are blind.

SW,
Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the 
optional trip?"

MW,
Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an argument 
showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have something, but 
without this, I think the analogy fails.

SW,
Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less 
difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to 
build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you 
that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.

MW,
It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has asked for 
things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read Walking Alone and 
Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the early goals 
of the organization was to make it so that blind people could earn money in 
the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is this not a 
kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they earn a 
certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This is one 
example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time a change 
has been requested that is designed to make things easier for blind people 
and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as a kind of 
a waver.

I think it is too commonly thought that equality requires equal treatment, 
or that equal treatment requires treating people the same.  This is a 
simplistic understanding of equality.  If someone has good reasons for 
wanting to be treated differently, and I include the fact that treating her 
the same would result in discrimination among good reasons, then there is 
nothing wrong with treating her differently.  If someone sees that 
differential treatment and makes mistaken assumptions about the abilities of 
blind people, and then discriminates against me in the future, I will hold 
him responsible for making those false assumptions, not her for insisting on 
her right to be free from discrimination.

I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design of 
products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up with 
clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all blind 
people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.

Best,

Marc


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> Good afternoon,
>
> I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the NFB to
> prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, paratransit use,
> reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not accept
> assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at all. People,
> both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the impression 
> that
> we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. If you 
> want
> to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the programs 
> we
> implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, while we all
> work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization may or may
> not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the group. I,
> for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the NFB's
> policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be a member
> does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own opinions. Like
> anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a Democrat,
> would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of views? Would
> your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel about 
> every
> issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it wouldn't. So, why
> does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing how I feel
> about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.
>
> This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should take a 
> waiver
> for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should there be.
> Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our 
> membership,
> but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."
>
> My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, counterproductive, 
> and
> absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me a case 
> where
> a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples to
> everything.
>
> Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is required for a
> BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not essential for
> your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 other credits
> somewhere else. The argument goes:
>
> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
> extra work not required of other students.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>
> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>
> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>
> That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, please 
> don't
> make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes me so much
> longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really needs math
> anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some additional 
> English
> credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. Better, 
> no
> chance in hell.
>
> Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree or 
> disagree
> with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating reasonably
> well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with the line
> about how blind students simply won't take anything away from certain
> classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, took
> calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily visual in
> many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and readers I was
> able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having any of the
> information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or examine economic
> or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what economists 
> are
> talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask the right
> questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from the graph. 
> So
> often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when all they are
> are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of the
> underlying concept is what is important.
>
> So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was required to 
> take
> one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take such a 
> class,
> and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But what if I
> had been required to take a class on art history or something of the sort.
> What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to me? Would
> that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester of 
> learning
> about different styles of painting would I ever have the pleasure of
> enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would not, 
> which,
> incidentally is just another one of those things in life that isn't fair.
> But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the progression
> of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, hopefully I
> would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither will any of
> the other students in the class who were forced to take it to graduate. So 
> I
> had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is life. If we 
> say
> we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The "when it
> suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>
> Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome art class 
> or
> science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student trip abroad,
> and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do you need 
> to
> come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your major, and
> besides, it would really present us with some logistical problems." 
> Wouldn't
> it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the optional 
> trip?"
>
> I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.
>
> If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just too hard, 
> then
> either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what you believe
> and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up where you 
> want
> to be in life.
>
> Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the wall. All
> the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks because I'm
> blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things also suck
> about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or having one 
> leg;
> or growing old and dying. That. is. life!
>
> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to
> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you
> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>
> Sean
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com