[nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Thu Jun 2 00:38:44 UTC 2011
Mike,
Although I'd love to (history buff that I am)
I believe the reports are only available on NFB's site since
1990.
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
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www.campabilities.org.
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--- Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:16:40 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
Darian:
Ask Primo Foyanini (if he's still alive) about being beaten up by
a janitor
at a Utah sheltered shop because he was/is a Federationist? While
perhaps
not in the same league as Rodney King, the beating *did* result
in
hospitalization. If you can find it, listen to the 1981
presidential Report.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Darian Smith
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 8:54 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
I think I understand what you both are communicating.
I don't believe (nor am I terribly sure that either Mike or
Briley are
actually saying) that there is a close comparison so much to we
as blind
people and the african/black american expirience in this nation.
I just
feel like we, as blind people will find a difficult time finding
our own
versions of Rodney King Or Oscar Grant, that would clearly
underscore the
same emotions, concerns and the like that as an ethnic grou
blacks face.
So in a way, I wonder if we arn't approachingan "apples and
Oranges"
situation?
Best,
Darian
On 5/28/11, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:
I think it is not always an appropriate comparison to say our
struggle
for civil rights isn't completely parallel with the black
American
experience, but we have struggled for civil rights. Go read
some
history on how blind people have been treated by families and
institutions over the years. Blind children were targets for
sexual
assault in extremely high numbers because they were considered
to be
vulnerable. They were placed in horrific living conditions
throughout
history in institutions because families believed that blindness
was
equal to ineffectiveness, and that they'd never be able to
succeed or
help out their relatives. As a people group, we have suffered
many
indignities that I don't think the current generation of blind
people even
come close to realizing.
Best,
Briley
On May 28, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Darian Smith wrote:
Mike:
African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term
themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon
how
they were treated by whites up to that time.
It is curious that how african-americans were treated is
always
one of the first ways we as blind people choose to make our
comparisons in our struggle for first-class citizanship. I
wonder,
were blind people beatin and hosed down when they peacefully
protest
the unjust ways they were treated? Were they lybnched? Can we
safely make those comparisons? unless I am missing something
(I
could be, and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we
have
some similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our
histories were quite different and the scars, deaths,risks were
felt
on largely different levels.
Just some thoughts on the matter,and I very much appreciate
the
question.
Respectfully,
Darian
On 5/26/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
Darian:
What do you think African-americans would have said during the
1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would
rather
date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black
persons
dating?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Darian Smith
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in
others
Jedi,
Sure-let me see...
We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with
situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For
example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to
"visually
impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person
uses
products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille
compass,
braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people
who
don't utilize these things seem lesser for not.
I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman
than a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea
of
two blind people dating.
Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I
would like to think that it's huge to consider where each
person
is in
their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am
fine
with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are
accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told
that we
are "wrong"
for thinking like we do.
Does that make sense?
Respecgfully,
Darian
On 5/26/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
Very good points.
We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to
remember that there are other minorities out there. How does
one
member of a minority group address another member of that same
group if they don't feel that this person is acting like they
should in public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a
positive image of the rest of that group to society?
I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with
it
varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it
upon
ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model
that positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that
probably is the healthiest way to approach this idea of
perception-changing that we think about alot, Does that make
sense?
thoughts?
On 5/26/11, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
Excellent points.
I'm going to add to that some.
I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when
they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness
or
discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of
such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible
audience for the blind person in question. This audience is
made
of both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts
like "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I
react
this or that way?
What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will
sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose
situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress
that limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation
also creates a greater likelihood of negative response to
perceived threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense
of
efficacy in the interaction.
So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind
person to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience
concept boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress
involved with feeling like they have to show themselves as both
effective and graceful in handling both the offers of help and
the
person who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the
bottom line is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for
the
blind, we may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such
a
high stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our
ability to present the cool, calm, and effective image we want
to
offer to the public.
On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it
in
our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about
us. The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility.
Sure, we want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does
everyone else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the
actions of one person.
But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about
that
except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our
population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely
that the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that
we're
all amazing or that the one individual in question is the
exception to a rule. It seems to me that the only people who
really get that we're as diverse as they are are those who know
how to deconstruct society's grand narrative or are those who
have
seen enough diversity in our population to realize that they
can't
judge all of us based on one
person.
Respectfully,
Jedi
Original message:
That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap
of
taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we
lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless
you're
a therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that,
it
is not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher,
your
place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously
said,
if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative
ways
of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old
patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows
a
lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves.
So if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let
them!
That person will either fall hard when they find out their
parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't
take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs
to
happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and
want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind
person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's
not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They
will
either come around in time or they
won't. Choice is the key word here.
Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not
hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to
lose out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance,
as
soon as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about
that other person real quick
On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero <djdan567 at gmail.com> wrote:
I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view
that we get from the public in general. Most people who are
sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand
that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now
reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are
the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who
smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the
proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say
that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right
for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills
set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out
because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label
on us blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the
skills to be independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not
saying it's right but I don't think us who do have the skills
want to have a negative conotation. Not all blind people poke
their eyes, rock, hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad,
do not clean their own clothes, or anything like that. So to be
part of a group that's going to display such a view that is
negative
to the public, we fall right behind that. Am I making sense?
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Darian Smith
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