[nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution

Fri Jun 17 17:57:04 UTC 2011

Hello George,

There is a problem with this line of reasoning.  The problem is that the 
word "can" is ambiguous.  This is why you're taught to distinguish between 
"can" and "may"

You wrote,
NABS stated not that long ago that all members who have paid dues can vote.
However, not all of us who have paid can go to convention,

The first "can" is really may.  All NABS members have permission to vote, or 
they have the right to vote, or they have the power to vote.

The second "can" refers to having the ability.  Not all NABS members have 
the ability to go to convention, though they do of course have the right to 
go.

The equivocation with the word "can" makes the argument invalid.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there are not good reasons for allowing 
proxy voting, but violating their own rules is not one of them.

Personally, I've found with my work on the National Board of the Alliance 
for Equality of Blind Canadians that proxy voting can be a very messy 
business.  I sympathize with a desire to increase the ability of members to 
vote, but I don't think voting at AGMs is really the most effective way of 
making your voice heard in an organization.

Cheers,

Marc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution

NABS stated not that long ago that all members who have paid dues can vote.
However, not all of us who have paid can go to convention,
and if you don't allow us to vote in proxy in some method,
you are violating your own rules,
so I'm proposing
the changes as described in my original amendment,
to create a safe and secure method for all members to vote.

On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Darian Smith wrote:

> George,
>  can you explain a little more to me, how you believe  the
> constitution is in violation of student rights?
>
> On 6/17/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I understand,
>> which is why that particular article violates our membership rights.
>> That is exactly what I'm trying to get fixed.
>>
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:41 PM, Darian Smith wrote:
>>
>>> George,
>>> in the constitution, the language states  clearly that there is to be
>>> no "proxy voting".  I have pasted the language for your review.
>>> "Officers and board members   shall be elected
>>> by a majority vote of the members of this Association present and
>>> voting. All officers and board   members must be in school for one
>>> year following their
>>> election. There shall be no proxy votes."
>>>
>>>
>>> As the constitution of this division, and of our national  body
>>> prohibits  this,  we are indeed not in violation of our constitution.
>>> The constitution odes  provide for an   amendment to be  submitted
>>> for  consideration and review by the  membership.
>>> The text of  this provision follows:"This constitution may be amended
>>> at any regular meeting of the   Association by an affirmative vote of
>>> two-thirds of the active   members present and voting,
>>> provided the amendment has ben   submitted to the President in
>>> writing, at least one day in   advance of the regular meeting.
>>> "
>>>
>>> Marsha,
>>> Nothing prohibits a student from runningin an election if they are
>>> not present- in fact this has  happen before.  It's really a matter of
>>> if the people present  believe the   individual seeking an office
>>> would  end up working  out better  for the organization than the
>>> people who are  currently in the room and seeking that same office.
>>>
>>> I hope this was helpful,
>>> darian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/17/11, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In theory this is a good suggestion. But lets be realistic here. This
>>>> would
>>>> be a complicated process of tallying the votes. If the students were to
>>>> do
>>>> this, the general convention would want this too. Its sad that those 
>>>> who
>>>> can't be there can't vote, but that is where those who can't be there,
>>>> should get involved to elect those who they feel would do the best job
>>>> possible.
>>>>
>>>> Say if you were to have a online way to take votes, how are you going 
>>>> to
>>>> distinguish from those who are really not going to those who are going 
>>>> to
>>>> convention but who want to vote and add votes to a particular person
>>>> running.
>>>>
>>>> Now correct me someone if I am wrong, isn't it true that you can run, 
>>>> not
>>>> necessarily be there, and be elected? Or must you be present? Different
>>>> divisions do this differently.
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Jorge Paez
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:57 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>>
>>>> Hello all:
>>>> I want to propose the following amendment to the constitution, to 
>>>> article
>>>> IV.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Voting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Due to the fact that there are people who will not be present at the
>>>> convention due to issues beyond the membership's control, but who have
>>>> paid
>>>> dues and do therefore, retain their right to vote, the NATIONAL
>>>> ASSOCIATION
>>>> OF THE BLIND shall henceforth recognize
>>>> these members by allowing them to vote, in such methods as are legal 
>>>> and
>>>> of
>>>> good practice, in all elections pertaining to the business of this
>>>> organization.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> end of amendment.
>>>>
>>>> The defense I put forth for this amendment is simple: if we are to be a
>>>> democratic organization, and if we are truly the "voice of the Nation's
>>>> blind" we must realize there are students who will not be able to 
>>>> attend
>>>> but
>>>> who have paid dues, and these students must be recognized and given the
>>>> chance to vote in elections. If not, we are violating our own
>>>> constitution
>>>> as article IV is doing as of this writing, by eliminating those members
>>>> who
>>>> cannot attend convention, and therein setting only a certain portion of
>>>> the
>>>> student membership to vote.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jorge
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai
>>>> l.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>> signature
>>>> database 6217 (20110617) __________
>>>>
>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>> signature
>>>> database 6217 (20110617) __________
>>>>
>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darian Smith
>>>
>>> “My secret?  See it, and stay focused on it.”
>>>
>>> — Shaquille O'Neal
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Darian Smith
>
> “My secret?  See it, and stay focused on it.”
>
> — Shaquille O'Neal
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com