[nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution

Sat Jun 18 02:44:47 UTC 2011

George,
  Because you do feel as strongly as you do about the matter, I would
suggest writting out a well-thought out proposal and submitting  it
to the board.  This  proposal  should  proceed any amendment because
the amenement in question requires quite a system to be put into
place. If you want  to move an idea, you have to put in writing and
bring it to the people who  you expect to make that change.  The List
serve  ultimately won't accomplish what you are truly seeking,
  Best.
  Darian

On 6/17/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps proxy was the wrong word to use, which is why I didn't include any
> direct titles for that.
> Yes an absentee system
> is exactly what I was thinking of.
>
> On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:21 PM, Briley Pollard wrote:
>
>> If you actually read my response, you'd see I addressed the issues bring
>> up. Of course I understand the financial burden, which I mentioned. But
>> there is a lot of assistance available, and not just from the NFB itself.
>> If people want to come, funding can be found. I'm in no way suggesting
>> that people who can't attend aren't federationists or don't care about the
>> organization. But proxy voting is not allowed for some very good reasons.
>> Perhaps there could be an Absent-T system instituted similar to what the
>> government has for legitimate circumstances. But, I'm not sure we as an
>> organization have the funds or the resources necessary to take on that
>> undertaking. It is an idea though.
>>
>> Best,
>> Briley
>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:14 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>
>>> Right,
>>> but tell me,
>>> does everyone have the money to spend around $1,00 on convention costs?
>>>
>>> You specially as a student should know that.
>>>
>>> And as for me,
>>> I have so far been a strong supporter of the federation, yet  only have
>>> gone to one national convention.
>>> So if I don't show up this year are you suggesting that I am not a "true
>>> federationist?" Because that's where your  language is pointing towards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:04 PM, Briley Pollard wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm hesitant to even weigh in on this debate since most relevant
>>>> arguments have already been made. However, it is important to note that
>>>> being present at the Nabs meeting every year indicates a certain amount
>>>> of investment in the organization. I know convention is expensive, but
>>>> there are multiple ways to procure funding outside of paying for
>>>> everything yourself. I know that as students we don't have much
>>>> expendable income. However, the yearly meeting of the organization as a
>>>> whole and the division shows the membership and is a chance for us as
>>>> members to make our wants and needs known by how we vote. If one cares
>>>> enough about the organization to make that kind of time investment, then
>>>> one has earned that right to participate in organizational positions and
>>>> decisions.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Briley
>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:52 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Right, and I will be sure to cast my vote for as many people whose
>>>>> names I happen to know as possible.  No, you’d need to manage passwords
>>>>> and data security.  There would be issues such as validity and
>>>>> integrity of the ballot (who’s observing to ensure the votes are not
>>>>> tampered with, etc.?)
>>>>>
>>>>> What you are looking for is not proxy voting, but to change NABS
>>>>> elections from being held at convention to being held online.  That
>>>>> means the elections process would need to happen (along with any
>>>>> runoffs and revotes) prior to convention so that the newly elected
>>>>> board members can meet with the old and arrange the transition plan as
>>>>> best they can.
>>>>>
>>>>> If elections, why not resolutions and other business as well?  Why
>>>>> would we then send delegates from the states to vote?  This would be a
>>>>> fundamental change to the organization as a whole, and one that could
>>>>> be exploited by those who have an axe to grind against the NFB.
>>>>> Without becoming too confrontational, suffice it to say that such
>>>>> individuals exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would also degrade our national convention from a policy-making body
>>>>> to the status of a trade show for blind ghetto tech.  I’m not sure
>>>>> you’re going to find support for that amongst Federationists at
>>>>> large—particularly since in order to do so you must first convince
>>>>> those Federationists who will be attending Convention because it is a
>>>>> policy-making body they wish to be part of that it should no longer be
>>>>> so.
>>>>>
>>>>> You would not have my support, even though I have only been to two
>>>>> non-consecutive conventions now, because I wouldn’t want to see what
>>>>> naturally comes from the application of your suggestion.  To me, going
>>>>> to convention is ABOUT something, whether I can attend or not.  I for
>>>>> one am not willing to give that up.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, though I may attend the NABS meeting if I am not needed
>>>>> elsewhere, I will not be voting.  I am not a student anymore, as I
>>>>> said, and NABS policy should IMO be set by those who are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:54:10PM -0400, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>>>> So would I.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, security measures such as comparing someone's name against a
>>>>>> database can easily be developed as well with some php.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:41 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A web based system could easily be developed, that's for sure. I
>>>>>>> would be willing to help with that.
>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marsha:
>>>>>>>> This is only theory to be aprooved--the web team would have to be in
>>>>>>>> charge of developing some authentication method.
>>>>>>>> I'm sure we could make sure only absent people vote in some way such
>>>>>>>> as having to enter with your name, and the site disqualifying you
>>>>>>>> when you enter your vote if it sees that you're present.
>>>>>>>> This is where the database of contact information would come in
>>>>>>>> handy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In theory this is a good suggestion. But lets be realistic here.
>>>>>>>>> This would
>>>>>>>>> be a complicated process of tallying the votes. If the students
>>>>>>>>> were to do
>>>>>>>>> this, the general convention would want this too. Its sad that
>>>>>>>>> those who
>>>>>>>>> can't be there can't vote, but that is where those who can't be
>>>>>>>>> there,
>>>>>>>>> should get involved to elect those who they feel would do the best
>>>>>>>>> job
>>>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Say if you were to have a online way to take votes, how are you
>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>> distinguish from those who are really not going to those who are
>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>> convention but who want to vote and add votes to a particular
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> running.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now correct me someone if I am wrong, isn't it true that you can
>>>>>>>>> run, not
>>>>>>>>> necessarily be there, and be elected? Or must you be present?
>>>>>>>>> Different
>>>>>>>>> divisions do this differently.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of Jorge Paez
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:57 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello all:
>>>>>>>>> I want to propose the following amendment to the constitution, to
>>>>>>>>> article
>>>>>>>>> IV.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Voting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Due to the fact that there are people who will not be present at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> convention due to issues beyond the membership's control, but who
>>>>>>>>> have paid
>>>>>>>>> dues and do therefore, retain their right to vote, the NATIONAL
>>>>>>>>> ASSOCIATION
>>>>>>>>> OF THE BLIND shall henceforth recognize
>>>>>>>>> these members by allowing them to vote, in such methods as are
>>>>>>>>> legal and of
>>>>>>>>> good practice, in all elections pertaining to the business of this
>>>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> end of amendment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The defense I put forth for this amendment is simple: if we are to
>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>> democratic organization, and if we are truly the "voice of the
>>>>>>>>> Nation's
>>>>>>>>> blind" we must realize there are students who will not be able to
>>>>>>>>> attend but
>>>>>>>>> who have paid dues, and these students must be recognized and given
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> chance to vote in elections. If not, we are violating our own
>>>>>>>>> constitution
>>>>>>>>> as article IV is doing as of this writing, by eliminating those
>>>>>>>>> members who
>>>>>>>>> cannot attend convention, and therein setting only a certain
>>>>>>>>> portion of the
>>>>>>>>> student membership to vote.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>> l.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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-- 
Darian Smith

“My secret?  See it, and stay focused on it.”

— Shaquille O'Neal