[nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution

[Joshua Lester]

Jamie, thanks for your comment.
I agree!
I'm not able to attend, this year.
I plan to join NABS, next year, in Dallas.
I hope someone nominates you for NABS president, because you have a
great idea, which should be emplemented.
Blessings, Joshua

On 6/18/11, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just need to say, in response to the argument that an absentee voting
> system would discourage attendance at national convention, that voting has
> never been a factor that got me to convention. The conventions have a lot to
> offer to newcomers and to old members, far beyond voting at your particular
> divisions business meeting. Hell, if that was the only strong reason I had
> for attending, I probably wouldn't bother. I don't think an absentee voting
> system will deter attendance from people who would have been interested in
> voting to begin with and actually have the resources to attend convention in
> that particular year. When I ask other students why they're breaking the
> bank to go to convention, no one has ever replied "uh, so I can vote of
> course!". It's always some other reason first and foremost. So in terms of
> deminishing the value of convention attendance, I don't think you have
> anything to worry about. Attendance wouldn't change. Sure, you can cast a
> vote as an absentee, but I can't get the full experience, you can't speak on
> issues and have your voice heard. You can't hear or meet the candidates face
> to face as easily, or at all... you're an absentee, and that has its
> consequences in everything. The availability of an absentee voting system in
> our US government doesn't seem to prevent people who actually intend to vote
> and can get out to the polls from going, because it's sometimes not as
> convenient. It's only convenient if you really CAN'T manage to get out to
> the polls. And individuals who wouldn't have gone out to vote anyway also
> don't generally submit absentee votes. If anything, I think this would
> simply be a matter of working out logistics and deadlines, which wouldn't be
> too daunting a task for the right tech team. Lets not avoid change for the
> sake of tradition. Such a system would, at its core, result in stronger,
> more meaningful elections if done properly.
> George, I support your idea, and offer you my assistance in promoting it. I
> will be attending convention this year in Orlando. Poke me off list if
> there's anything I can do.
> -Jamie
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Courtney Stover
> <liamskitten at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi all:
>>
>> Many of the cogent points have already been discussed here.  However,
>> there are a couple which I'd like to cover in greater detail.
>>
>> As someone who attended National convention several years ago because
>> of the extremely hard and diligent work of my chapter President to
>> procure financial aid, I can vouch that what a great deal of the
>> membership are saying about getting some of your expenses covered in
>> this manner is definitely doable, especially if you begin planning in
>> advance.
>>
>> As evidence of why this measure would be an absolute nightmare I
>> submit exhibit A: the 2000 Presidential election, and Exhibit B: the
>> 2004 Presidential election.
>>
>> I am not attempting to begin a political discussion here, but due to
>> some voter fraud and logistics issues, those elections were a
>> nightmare no matter which side you were on.
>>
>> I don't like how this amendment would discourage people from gaining
>> the full experience of the NFB through the communal aspects showcased
>> to such great effect through convention.  If all we have to do to
>> influence policy decisions is press a button, why would we, especially
>> those of us who struggle financially, attempt to find the funds for
>> convention.
>>
>> In closing, there's a factor I think very few of those in favor of
>> this amendment are considering: stage presence.  We want people who
>> can not only articulately and passionately represent the NFB in
>> writing, but in person, too.  Extremely articulate letter writers may
>> become rather tongue-tied and shy in person...any of you who know me
>> well can vouch for the truth of that one.  So, to my mind, to make the
>> best possible decision, we need written platforms such as those posted
>> to the list over the last few days, and face to face interaction,
>> which we will gain at convention.
>>
>> Courtney
>>
>> On 6/18/11, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > The fact that the NFB has "alot of funds" is not the issue. The reality
>> is
>> > that we all know that National Convention happens once a year around the
>> > July 4TH  holiday and if we  want to attend, we  need to plan well in
>> > advance. Also, if we  need financial assistance then we  need to find
>> > out
>> > from our   state affiliate what kind of financial assistance is
>> available.
>> > Tina
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> > Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:29 AM
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>> >
>> > This is the NFB we're talking about here, they've got a lot of funds!
>> >
>> >  Chris
>> >
>> > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To
>> learn
>> > more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on
>> > this link to their national Web site:
>> > www.campabilities.org.
>> >
>> > The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have
>> the
>> > ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn
>> > more
>> > and to contribute:
>> > www.icanfoundation.info.
>> >
>> >  Sent from my BrailleNote
>> >
>> >  ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Date sent: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:21:04 -0400
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>> >
>> > If you actually read my response, you'd see I addressed the issues bring
>> > up..  Of course I understand the financial burden, which I mentioned.
>>  But
>> > there is a lot of assistance available, and not just from the NFB
>> > itself.
>> > If people want to come, funding can be found.  I'm in no way suggesting
>> > that people who can't attend aren't federationists or don't care about
>> the
>> > organization.  But proxy voting is not allowed for some very good
>> reasons.
>> > Perhaps there could be an Absent-T system instituted similar to what the
>> > government has for legitimate circumstances.
>> > But, I'm not sure we as an organization have the funds or the resources
>> > necessary to take on that undertaking.  It is an idea though.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Briley
>> > On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:14 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>> >
>> >  Right,
>> >  but tell me,
>> >  does everyone have the money to spend around $1,00 on convention costs?
>> >
>> >  You specially as a student should know that.
>> >
>> >  And as for me,
>> >  I have so far been a strong supporter of the federation, yet only have
>> > gone to one national convention.
>> >  So if I don't show up this year are you suggesting that I am not a
>> > "true
>> > federationist?" Because that's where your  language is pointing towards.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:04 PM, Briley Pollard wrote:
>> >
>> >  I'm hesitant to even weigh in on this debate since most relevant
>> arguments
>> > have already been made.  However, it is important to note that being
>> > present at the Nabs meeting every year indicates a certain amount of
>> > investment in the organization.  I know convention is expensive, but
>> there
>> > are multiple ways to procure funding outside of paying for everything
>> > yourself.  I know that as students we don't have much expendable income.
>> > However, the yearly meeting of the organization as a whole and the
>> division
>> > shows the membership and is a chance for us as members to make our wants
>> > and needs known by how we vote.  If one cares enough about the
>> organization
>> > to make that kind of time investment, then one has earned that right to
>> > participate in organizational positions and decisions.
>> >
>> >  Best,
>> >  Briley
>> >  On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:52 PM, T.  Joseph Carter wrote:
>> >
>> >  Right, and I will be sure to cast my vote for as many people whose
>> > names
>> I
>> > happen to know as possible.  No, you뭗 need to manage passwords and data
>> > security.  There would be issues such as validity and integrity of the
>> > ballot (who뭩 observing to ensure the votes are not tampered with, etc.?)
>> >
>> >  What you are looking for is not proxy voting, but to change NABS
>> elections
>> > from being held at convention to being held online.
>> > That means the elections process would need to happen (along with any
>> > runoffs and revotes) prior to convention so that the newly elected board
>> > members can meet with the old and arrange the transition plan as best
>> they
>> > can.
>> >
>> >  If elections, why not resolutions and other business as well?
>> > Why would we then send delegates from the states to vote?  This would be
>> a
>> > fundamental change to the organization as a whole, and one that could be
>> > exploited by those who have an axe to grind against the NFB.  Without
>> > becoming too confrontational, suffice it to say that such individuals
>> exist.
>> >
>> >  It would also degrade our national convention from a policy-making body
>> to
>> > the status of a trade show for blind ghetto tech.  I뭢 not sure you뭨e
>> > going to find support for that amongst Federationists at
>> large뾭articularly
>> > since in order to do so you must first convince those Federationists who
>> > will be attending Convention because it is a policy-making body they
>> > wish
>> > to be part of that it should no longer be so.
>> >
>> >  You would not have my support, even though I have only been to two non-
>> > consecutive conventions now, because I wouldn뭪 want to see what
>> > naturally
>> > comes from the application of your suggestion.
>> > To me, going to convention is ABOUT something, whether I can attend or
>> not.
>> > I for one am not willing to give that up.
>> >
>> >  That said, though I may attend the NABS meeting if I am not needed
>> > elsewhere, I will not be voting.  I am not a student anymore, as I said,
>> > and NABS policy should IMO be set by those who are.
>> >
>> >  Joseph
>> >
>> >
>> >  On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:54:10PM -0400, Jorge Paez wrote:
>> >  So would I.
>> >
>> >  And, security measures such as comparing someone's name against a
>> database
>> > can easily be developed as well with some php.
>> >
>> >
>> >  On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:41 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
>> >
>> >  A web based system could easily be developed, that's for sure.
>> > I would be willing to help with that.
>> >  On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>> >
>> >  Marsha:
>> >  This is only theory to be aprooved--the web team would have to
>> > be in charge of developing some authentication method.
>> >  I'm sure we could make sure only absent people vote in some way
>> > such as having to enter with your name, and the site
>> > disqualifying you when you enter your vote if it sees that you're
>> > present.
>> >  This is where the database of contact information would come in
>> > handy.
>> >
>> >
>> >  On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>> >
>> >  In theory this is a good suggestion.  But lets be realistic
>> > here.  This would
>> >  be a complicated process of tallying the votes.  If the students
>> > were to do
>> >  this, the general convention would want this too.  Its sad that
>> > those who
>> >  can't be there can't vote, but that is where those who can't be
>> > there,
>> >  should get involved to elect those who they feel would do the
>> > best job
>> >  possible.
>> >
>> >  Say if you were to have a online way to take votes, how are you
>> > going to
>> >  distinguish from those who are really not going to those who are
>> > going to
>> >  convention but who want to vote and add votes to a particular
>> > person
>> >  running.
>> >
>> >  Now correct me someone if I am wrong, isn't it true that you can
>> > run, not
>> >  necessarily be there, and be elected? Or must you be present?
>> > Different
>> >  divisions do this differently.
>> >
>> >  Marsha
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  -----Original Message-----
>> >  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> >  Of Jorge Paez
>> >  Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:57 AM
>> >  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >  Subject: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>> >
>> >  Hello all:
>> >  I want to propose the following amendment to the constitution,
>> > to article
>> >  IV.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  ---
>> >
>> >
>> >  Voting
>> >
>> >
>> >  Due to the fact that there are people who will not be present at
>> > the
>> >  convention due to issues beyond the membership's control, but
>> > who have paid
>> >  dues and do therefore, retain their right to vote, the NATIONAL
>> > ASSOCIATION
>> >  OF THE BLIND shall henceforth recognize
>> >  these members by allowing them to vote, in such methods as are
>> > legal and of
>> >  good practice, in all elections pertaining to the business of
>> > this
>> >  organization.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  ---
>> >
>> >
>> >  end of amendment.
>> >
>> >  The defense I put forth for this amendment is simple: if we are
>> > to be a
>> >  democratic organization, and if we are truly the "voice of the
>> > Nation's
>> >  blind" we must realize there are students who will not be able
>> > to attend but
>> >  who have paid dues, and these students must be recognized and
>> > given the
>> >  chance to vote in elections.  If not, we are violating our own
>> > constitution
>> >  as article IV is doing as of this writing, by eliminating those
>> > members who
>> >  cannot attend convention, and therein setting only a certain
>> > portion of the
>> >  student membership to vote.
>> >
>> >
>> >  Jorge
>> >  _______________________________________________
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