[nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution

Sun Jun 19 02:01:43 UTC 2011

If I recall, the present system of voting at convention is not immune to
miscounts and abuse either. I believe last year's election is evidence of
this... Certainly the system was established with deliberate thought and
consideration, and it can be changed with the same thought and
consideration. Such is the nature of progress, and what is the NFB if not a
progressive organization of innovative blind individuals. Again, I recommend
that anyone in favor of this sort of progress take their ideas higher up the
ladder. I'm confident that they will at least be heard and considered.
Again, please e-mail me off-list if anyone is interested in discussing this
and perhaps organizing an effort to be heard by the leaders of the NFB.
Blackbyrdfly at gmail.com

Great discussion!

-Jamie

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 9:39 PM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:

> I will have nothing to do with saying who is a member, or not.  In fact,
> while the proposed amendment to allow for absentee voting is well meant, I
> think you will end up spending all your time deciding who is a member and
> who isn't etc.  Someone who is running could get a bunch of his/her friends
> to pay dues and vote for him/her absentee, "packing the membership roster."
>  Hay, life is tough, people who pay the expense, and go to convention
> deserve to get something extra for their effort.  We don't have absentee
> voting for the main organization either.
>
> I won't say that your constitution and bylaws should never be changed, but
> they were thought through and came about over time, due to experience.  I am
> sure there is a deliberative process for amending them, and I doubt it is on
> this list (smile.).
>
> Dave
>
>
> At 10:18 AM 6/18/2011, you wrote:
>
>> That could be a job for Dave Andrews if he wants to do it, considering he
>> already monitors many of our lists.  :)
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just
>> click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org.
>>
>> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have
>> the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn
>> more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info.
>>
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.**com<computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:08:54 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>
>> As far as online goes, it wouldn't be passwords.
>> A stronger mechanism of security would be to make sure you enter
>> something, say your name, and have the systems match your name against that
>> of the registered member database.
>> Besides: since it would be coming in at around the same time as the NABS
>> business meeting,
>> I'm sure the board would appoint a monitor to assure validity.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:52 PM, T.  Joseph Carter wrote:
>>
>> Right, and I will be sure to cast my vote for as many people whose names I
>> happen to know as possible.  No, you’d need to manage passwords and data
>> security.  There would be issues such as validity and integrity of the
>> ballot (who’s observing to ensure the votes are not tampered with, etc.?)
>>
>>
>> What you are looking for is not proxy voting, but to change NABS elections
>> from being held at convention to being held online.
>> That means the elections process would need to happen (along with any
>> runoffs and revotes) prior to convention so that the newly elected board
>> members can meet with the old and arrange the transition plan as best they
>> can.
>>
>> If elections, why not resolutions and other business as well?
>> Why would we then send delegates from the states to vote?  This would be a
>> fundamental change to the organization as a whole, and one that could be
>> exploited by those who have an axe to grind against the NFB.  Without
>> becoming too confrontational, suffice it to say that such individuals exist.
>>
>> It would also degrade our national convention from a policy-making body to
>> the status of a trade show for blind ghetto tech.  I’m not sure you’re going
>> to find support for that amongst Federationists at large—particularly since
>> in order to do so you must first convince those Federationists who will be
>> attending Convention because it is a policy-making body they wish to be part
>> of that it should no longer be so.
>>
>> You would not have my support, even though I have only been to two
>> non-consecutive conventions now, because I wouldn’t want to see what
>> naturally comes from the application of your suggestion.
>>
>> To me, going to convention is ABOUT something, whether I can attend or
>> not.  I for one am not willing to give that up.
>>
>> That said, though I may attend the NABS meeting if I am not needed
>> elsewhere, I will not be voting.  I am not a student anymore, as I said, and
>> NABS policy should IMO be set by those who are.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:54:10PM -0400, Jorge Paez wrote:
>> So would I.
>>
>> And, security measures such as comparing someone's name against a database
>> can easily be developed as well with some php.
>>
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:41 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
>>
>> A web based system could easily be developed, that's for sure.
>> I would be willing to help with that.
>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>
>> Marsha:
>> This is only theory to be aprooved--the web team would have to be in
>> charge of developing some authentication method.
>> I'm sure we could make sure only absent people vote in some way such as
>> having to enter with your name, and the site disqualifying you when you
>> enter your vote if it sees that you're present.
>> This is where the database of contact information would come in handy.
>>
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>>
>> In theory this is a good suggestion.  But lets be realistic here.  This
>> would
>> be a complicated process of tallying the votes.  If the students were to
>> do
>> this, the general convention would want this too.  Its sad that those who
>> can't be there can't vote, but that is where those who can't be there,
>> should get involved to elect those who they feel would do the best job
>> possible.
>>
>> Say if you were to have a online way to take votes, how are you going to
>> distinguish from those who are really not going to those who are going to
>> convention but who want to vote and add votes to a particular person
>> running.
>>
>> Now correct me someone if I am wrong, isn't it true that you can run, not
>> necessarily be there, and be elected? Or must you be present? Different
>> divisions do this differently.
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>> On Behalf
>> Of Jorge Paez
>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:57 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>
>> Hello all:
>> I want to propose the following amendment to the constitution, to article
>> IV.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> Voting
>>
>>
>> Due to the fact that there are people who will not be present at the
>> convention due to issues beyond the membership's control, but who have
>> paid
>> dues and do therefore, retain their right to vote, the NATIONAL
>> ASSOCIATION
>> OF THE BLIND shall henceforth recognize
>> these members by allowing them to vote, in such methods as are legal and
>> of
>> good practice, in all elections pertaining to the business of this
>> organization.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> end of amendment.
>>
>> The defense I put forth for this amendment is simple: if we are to be a
>> democratic organization, and if we are truly the "voice of the Nation's
>> blind" we must realize there are students who will not be able to attend
>> but
>> who have paid dues, and these students must be recognized and given the
>> chance to vote in elections.  If not, we are violating our own
>> constitution
>> as article IV is doing as of this writing, by eliminating those members
>> who
>> cannot attend convention, and therein setting only a certain portion of
>> the
>> student membership to vote.
>>
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>
>
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