[nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution

Sun Jun 19 03:14:28 UTC 2011

As a current board member, and  a part of the at hoc Election
committee that developed the process for counting, I would be very
interested to hear of any concerns about last years election in
Dallas.
 I would also be  willing to hear any suggestions people    may h
have.  All responses will be kept in confidence between the board
members, and  will be used to  improve future voting practices.
  Please E-mail me off list @ dsmithnfb at gmail.com
  Best,
  Darian

On 6/18/11, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> If I recall, the present system of voting at convention is not immune to
> miscounts and abuse either. I believe last year's election is evidence of
> this... Certainly the system was established with deliberate thought and
> consideration, and it can be changed with the same thought and
> consideration. Such is the nature of progress, and what is the NFB if not a
> progressive organization of innovative blind individuals. Again, I recommend
> that anyone in favor of this sort of progress take their ideas higher up the
> ladder. I'm confident that they will at least be heard and considered.
> Again, please e-mail me off-list if anyone is interested in discussing this
> and perhaps organizing an effort to be heard by the leaders of the NFB.
> Blackbyrdfly at gmail.com
>
> Great discussion!
>
> -Jamie
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 9:39 PM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>
>> I will have nothing to do with saying who is a member, or not.  In fact,
>> while the proposed amendment to allow for absentee voting is well meant, I
>> think you will end up spending all your time deciding who is a member and
>> who isn't etc.  Someone who is running could get a bunch of his/her
>> friends
>> to pay dues and vote for him/her absentee, "packing the membership
>> roster."
>>  Hay, life is tough, people who pay the expense, and go to convention
>> deserve to get something extra for their effort.  We don't have absentee
>> voting for the main organization either.
>>
>> I won't say that your constitution and bylaws should never be changed, but
>> they were thought through and came about over time, due to experience.  I
>> am
>> sure there is a deliberative process for amending them, and I doubt it is
>> on
>> this list (smile.).
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> At 10:18 AM 6/18/2011, you wrote:
>>
>>> That could be a job for Dave Andrews if he wants to do it, considering he
>>> already monitors many of our lists.  :)
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just
>>> click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org.
>>>
>>> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have
>>> the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn
>>> more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info.
>>>
>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Jorge Paez
>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.**com<computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:08:54 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>
>>> As far as online goes, it wouldn't be passwords.
>>> A stronger mechanism of security would be to make sure you enter
>>> something, say your name, and have the systems match your name against
>>> that
>>> of the registered member database.
>>> Besides: since it would be coming in at around the same time as the NABS
>>> business meeting,
>>> I'm sure the board would appoint a monitor to assure validity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:52 PM, T.  Joseph Carter wrote:
>>>
>>> Right, and I will be sure to cast my vote for as many people whose names
>>> I
>>> happen to know as possible.  No, you’d need to manage passwords and data
>>> security.  There would be issues such as validity and integrity of the
>>> ballot (who’s observing to ensure the votes are not tampered with, etc.?)
>>>
>>>
>>> What you are looking for is not proxy voting, but to change NABS
>>> elections
>>> from being held at convention to being held online.
>>> That means the elections process would need to happen (along with any
>>> runoffs and revotes) prior to convention so that the newly elected board
>>> members can meet with the old and arrange the transition plan as best
>>> they
>>> can.
>>>
>>> If elections, why not resolutions and other business as well?
>>> Why would we then send delegates from the states to vote?  This would be
>>> a
>>> fundamental change to the organization as a whole, and one that could be
>>> exploited by those who have an axe to grind against the NFB.  Without
>>> becoming too confrontational, suffice it to say that such individuals
>>> exist.
>>>
>>> It would also degrade our national convention from a policy-making body
>>> to
>>> the status of a trade show for blind ghetto tech.  I’m not sure you’re
>>> going
>>> to find support for that amongst Federationists at large—particularly
>>> since
>>> in order to do so you must first convince those Federationists who will
>>> be
>>> attending Convention because it is a policy-making body they wish to be
>>> part
>>> of that it should no longer be so.
>>>
>>> You would not have my support, even though I have only been to two
>>> non-consecutive conventions now, because I wouldn’t want to see what
>>> naturally comes from the application of your suggestion.
>>>
>>> To me, going to convention is ABOUT something, whether I can attend or
>>> not.  I for one am not willing to give that up.
>>>
>>> That said, though I may attend the NABS meeting if I am not needed
>>> elsewhere, I will not be voting.  I am not a student anymore, as I said,
>>> and
>>> NABS policy should IMO be set by those who are.
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:54:10PM -0400, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>> So would I.
>>>
>>> And, security measures such as comparing someone's name against a
>>> database
>>> can easily be developed as well with some php.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:41 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
>>>
>>> A web based system could easily be developed, that's for sure.
>>> I would be willing to help with that.
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>
>>> Marsha:
>>> This is only theory to be aprooved--the web team would have to be in
>>> charge of developing some authentication method.
>>> I'm sure we could make sure only absent people vote in some way such as
>>> having to enter with your name, and the site disqualifying you when you
>>> enter your vote if it sees that you're present.
>>> This is where the database of contact information would come in handy.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>>>
>>> In theory this is a good suggestion.  But lets be realistic here.  This
>>> would
>>> be a complicated process of tallying the votes.  If the students were to
>>> do
>>> this, the general convention would want this too.  Its sad that those who
>>> can't be there can't vote, but that is where those who can't be there,
>>> should get involved to elect those who they feel would do the best job
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> Say if you were to have a online way to take votes, how are you going to
>>> distinguish from those who are really not going to those who are going to
>>> convention but who want to vote and add votes to a particular person
>>> running.
>>>
>>> Now correct me someone if I am wrong, isn't it true that you can run, not
>>> necessarily be there, and be elected? Or must you be present? Different
>>> divisions do this differently.
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>> On Behalf
>>> Of Jorge Paez
>>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:57 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>
>>> Hello all:
>>> I want to propose the following amendment to the constitution, to article
>>> IV.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>> Voting
>>>
>>>
>>> Due to the fact that there are people who will not be present at the
>>> convention due to issues beyond the membership's control, but who have
>>> paid
>>> dues and do therefore, retain their right to vote, the NATIONAL
>>> ASSOCIATION
>>> OF THE BLIND shall henceforth recognize
>>> these members by allowing them to vote, in such methods as are legal and
>>> of
>>> good practice, in all elections pertaining to the business of this
>>> organization.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>> end of amendment.
>>>
>>> The defense I put forth for this amendment is simple: if we are to be a
>>> democratic organization, and if we are truly the "voice of the Nation's
>>> blind" we must realize there are students who will not be able to attend
>>> but
>>> who have paid dues, and these students must be recognized and given the
>>> chance to vote in elections.  If not, we are violating our own
>>> constitution
>>> as article IV is doing as of this writing, by eliminating those members
>>> who
>>> cannot attend convention, and therein setting only a certain portion of
>>> the
>>> student membership to vote.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jorge
>>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Darian Smith

“My secret?  See it, and stay focused on it.”

— Shaquille O'Neal