[nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Sun Jun 19 02:02:12 UTC 2011
We shall see! If Arielle said she had to get permission from the
national office, there's probably not going to be that
permission, as this also contradicts the NFB Constitution.
Although I like the proposed amendment and support it, this is
just my prediction of the reality of it. Sorry, Jorge!
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
www.campabilities.org.
The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info.
Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tina Thomas" <tinadt at sbcglobal.net
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 16:00:29 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
Hello Everyone- I have enjoyed the lively debates on the purposed
amendment. However, the reality is that this purposed amendment
contradicts our national constitution which prohibits any voting
by proxy and or absentee voting. Also NABS has had some issues
with the in- person voting process in recent years. There were
people at the business meeting who were not NABS members and
attempted to vote which created a very chaotic and hostile
environment. I don't see our national leadership considering
this purposed amendment.
Tina
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Courtney Stover
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:20 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
Hi all:
Many of the cogent points have already been discussed here.
However,
there are a couple which I'd like to cover in greater detail.
As someone who attended National convention several years ago
because
of the extremely hard and diligent work of my chapter President
to
procure financial aid, I can vouch that what a great deal of the
membership are saying about getting some of your expenses covered
in
this manner is definitely doable, especially if you begin
planning in
advance.
As evidence of why this measure would be an absolute nightmare I
submit exhibit A: the 2000 Presidential election, and Exhibit B:
the
2004 Presidential election.
I am not attempting to begin a political discussion here, but due
to
some voter fraud and logistics issues, those elections were a
nightmare no matter which side you were on.
I don't like how this amendment would discourage people from
gaining
the full experience of the NFB through the communal aspects
showcased
to such great effect through convention. If all we have to do to
influence policy decisions is press a button, why would we,
especially
those of us who struggle financially, attempt to find the funds
for
convention.
In closing, there's a factor I think very few of those in favor
of
this amendment are considering: stage presence. We want people
who
can not only articulately and passionately represent the NFB in
writing, but in person, too. Extremely articulate letter writers
may
become rather tongue-tied and shy in person...any of you who know
me
well can vouch for the truth of that one. So, to my mind, to
make the
best possible decision, we need written platforms such as those
posted
to the list over the last few days, and face to face interaction,
which we will gain at convention.
Courtney
On 6/18/11, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The fact that the NFB has "alot of funds" is not the issue. The
reality is
that we all know that National Convention happens once a year
around the
July 4TH holiday and if we want to attend, we need to plan
well in
advance. Also, if we need financial assistance then we need
to find out
from our state affiliate what kind of financial assistance is
available.
Tina
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:29 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
This is the NFB we're talking about here, they've got a lot of
funds!
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
motto) To learn
more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just
click on
this link to their national Web site:
www.campabilities.org.
The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have the
ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to
learn more
and to contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info.
Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
From: Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:21:04 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
If you actually read my response, you'd see I addressed the
issues bring
up.. Of course I understand the financial burden, which I
mentioned. But
there is a lot of assistance available, and not just from the
NFB itself.
If people want to come, funding can be found. I'm in no way
suggesting
that people who can't attend aren't federationists or don't care
about the
organization. But proxy voting is not allowed for some very
good reasons.
Perhaps there could be an Absent-T system instituted similar to
what the
government has for legitimate circumstances.
But, I'm not sure we as an organization have the funds or the
resources
necessary to take on that undertaking. It is an idea though.
Best,
Briley
On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:14 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
Right,
but tell me,
does everyone have the money to spend around $1,00 on
convention costs?
You specially as a student should know that.
And as for me,
I have so far been a strong supporter of the federation, yet
only have
gone to one national convention.
So if I don't show up this year are you suggesting that I am
not a "true
federationist?" Because that's where your language is pointing
towards.
On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:04 PM, Briley Pollard wrote:
I'm hesitant to even weigh in on this debate since most
relevant arguments
have already been made. However, it is important to note that
being
present at the Nabs meeting every year indicates a certain
amount of
investment in the organization. I know convention is expensive,
but there
are multiple ways to procure funding outside of paying for
everything
yourself. I know that as students we don't have much expendable
income.
However, the yearly meeting of the organization as a whole and
the division
shows the membership and is a chance for us as members to make
our wants
and needs known by how we vote. If one cares enough about the
organization
to make that kind of time investment, then one has earned that
right to
participate in organizational positions and decisions.
Best,
Briley
On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:52 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
Right, and I will be sure to cast my vote for as many people
whose names I
happen to know as possible. No, youë— need to manage
passwords and data
security. There would be issues such as validity and integrity
of the
ballot (whoë© observing to ensure the votes are not tampered
with, etc.?)
What you are looking for is not proxy voting, but to change
NABS elections
from being held at convention to being held online.
That means the elections process would need to happen (along
with any
runoffs and revotes) prior to convention so that the newly
elected board
members can meet with the old and arrange the transition plan as
best they
can.
If elections, why not resolutions and other business as well?
Why would we then send delegates from the states to vote? This
would be a
fundamental change to the organization as a whole, and one that
could be
exploited by those who have an axe to grind against the NFB.
Without
becoming too confrontational, suffice it to say that such
individuals exist.
It would also degrade our national convention from a
policy-making body to
the status of a trade show for blind ghetto tech. Ië¢ not
sure youë¨e
going to find support for that amongst Federationists at
largeë¾articularly
since in order to do so you must first convince those
Federationists who
will be attending Convention because it is a policy-making body
they wish
to be part of that it should no longer be so.
You would not have my support, even though I have only been to
two non-
consecutive conventions now, because I wouldnëª want to see
what naturally
comes from the application of your suggestion.
To me, going to convention is ABOUT something, whether I can
attend or not.
I for one am not willing to give that up.
That said, though I may attend the NABS meeting if I am not
needed
elsewhere, I will not be voting. I am not a student anymore, as
I said,
and NABS policy should IMO be set by those who are.
Joseph
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:54:10PM -0400, Jorge Paez wrote:
So would I.
And, security measures such as comparing someone's name against
a database
can easily be developed as well with some php.
On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:41 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
A web based system could easily be developed, that's for sure.
I would be willing to help with that.
On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
Marsha:
This is only theory to be aprooved--the web team would have to
be in charge of developing some authentication method.
I'm sure we could make sure only absent people vote in some way
such as having to enter with your name, and the site
disqualifying you when you enter your vote if it sees that
you're
present.
This is where the database of contact information would come in
handy.
On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
In theory this is a good suggestion. But lets be realistic
here. This would
be a complicated process of tallying the votes. If the
students
were to do
this, the general convention would want this too. Its sad that
those who
can't be there can't vote, but that is where those who can't be
there,
should get involved to elect those who they feel would do the
best job
possible.
Say if you were to have a online way to take votes, how are you
going to
distinguish from those who are really not going to those who
are
going to
convention but who want to vote and add votes to a particular
person
running.
Now correct me someone if I am wrong, isn't it true that you
can
run, not
necessarily be there, and be elected? Or must you be present?
Different
divisions do this differently.
Marsha
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jorge Paez
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:57 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
Hello all:
I want to propose the following amendment to the constitution,
to article
IV.
---
Voting
Due to the fact that there are people who will not be present
at
the
convention due to issues beyond the membership's control, but
who have paid
dues and do therefore, retain their right to vote, the NATIONAL
ASSOCIATION
OF THE BLIND shall henceforth recognize
these members by allowing them to vote, in such methods as are
legal and of
good practice, in all elections pertaining to the business of
this
organization.
---
end of amendment.
The defense I put forth for this amendment is simple: if we are
to be a
democratic organization, and if we are truly the "voice of the
Nation's
blind" we must realize there are students who will not be able
to attend but
who have paid dues, and these students must be recognized and
given the
chance to vote in elections. If not, we are violating our own
constitution
as article IV is doing as of this writing, by eliminating those
members who
cannot attend convention, and therein setting only a certain
portion of the
student membership to vote.
Jorge
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