[nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment

Sun Jun 19 06:04:20 UTC 2011

All,
  I've already made my thoughts about this known.  But the more I
think about it, the more I'm thinking I was wrong in suggesting
"virtual representation."  The reason being the potential for abuse
David, Arielle and I, already articulated.  I was just too tired to
connect the dots and realize that would apply to anyone who pays
dues-hypothetically, I could get all my ACB student friends together
(I do have a few), give them all $5 to pay dues to NABS, then they can
vote on the secure stream.  This, of course, is assuming a system for
online dues gets set up.
  Just like the government often overrides personal rights for the
safety and rights of society (look up smith v. Oregon if you want a
funky legal example), we have to override some of the rights of NABS
members who don't attend convention to ensure the security of our
organization.  Sad?  Absolutely.  Necessary?  I'm thinking so.  I'll
concede it violates a right you should have in a perfect world.  But,
unless you haven't realized yet, our world's a far cry from perfect.
The potential for abuse is just too great.  I agree with your intent,
I really do.  But I just don't think it's feasible.
  In any case I wish you luck, Jorge.  If you're seriously wanting
this to pass, you'll need all the luck you can get...even divine
intervention might not make it happen.  *grin*
  Warmly,
Kirt

On 6/18/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
> Excellent point, Kurt. I have heard of cases at state conventions
> where candidates brought all  their friends who were not NFB members
> on the day of the election to pay their dues and vote in person. Sure,
> this could happen at a national convention, but it seems less likely,
> and much more likely if absentee voting were allowed. The problem
> could be minimized by requiring payment of dues a month or so in
> advance of the election. But even then, how could we verify payment
> status virtually? The U.S. government allows mail-in voting, but in
> that case candidates are clearly identified in advance. In short, even
> if this amendment were permissible and philosophically desirable, our
> election procedures, from nomination of candidates to membership
> verification, would have to be radically modified. I'm not opposed to
> change, but I question whether the dramatic investment of effort
> required is worth the benefit of allowing a few more people to vote.
> As Darian emphasized, there are many, many other ways we can be using
> our energy and exercising our membership rights.
> Respectfully,
> Arielle
>
> On 6/18/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jorge,
>>   You're putting this out in the open for public scrutiny so I'm going
>> to be honest.  I really, really don't like the idea-it opens up all
>> sorts of cans of worms that don't seem right to me.  Consider the
>> following.
>>   We probably won't know all the candidates in the election *until*
>> the actual business meeting.  There could be someone who, for whatever
>> reason, hasn't announced their candidacy for office on the list.  I
>> think it's only fair that anyone who's even considering voting in the
>> election knows who all candidates are and has the opportunity to
>> listen to each introduction speech (even if it's only 30 seconds
>> long), before they cast their ballot.  That's only fair to all the
>> candidates involved.  I would consider supporting an idea that allows
>> those due-paying members in virtual attendance (through an official
>> NABS skype call or the like) the opportunity to vote.  Beyond that, I
>> don't think you have much of a case.
>>   Also, think about this.  Let's say you, hypothetically, were running
>> for NABS president.  You get a bunch of your blind friends who aren't
>> going to convention, who may or may not want anything to do with the
>> Federation, and have them pay $5 so they're voting members.  I'm not
>> saying you'd do such a thing, I'm just saying you're leaving that kind
>> of possibility open.  No matter how secure the voting method is, that
>> makes this something that could happen.  Do other organizations open
>> that door?  Sure.  Should we?  I say no.
>>   But the spirit behind the idea isn't bad.  I think, personally, if
>> we could ensure some sort of secure method for virtual attendance at
>> the meeting for those due-paying members who can't make convention,
>> I'd be all for allowing them to vote.  Maybe set up a shoutcast server
>> streaming the meeting, and only give the password to those due-paying
>> members who request it?  Make a conference call and only give the
>> calling info/access code for those due-paying members who ask for it?
>> If we instituted a system like that, I don't see why we couldn't allow
>> that sort of absentee voting, but only for those who are in virtual
>> attendance at the NABS business meeting and not for anyone else.  Am I
>> making any sense?  Is that a possibility?
>>   All the best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/18/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Arielle:
>>> Not exactly,
>>> I'm going to continue to edit the amendment myself and should be able to
>>> submit it before July second.
>>> I posted this version so that people could see my amendment in light of
>>> the
>>> entire section.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jorge,
>>>> Is this the final version you would like read at the NABS meeting this
>>>> year? Or, would you like to wait until 2012 when you will be at
>>>> convention yourself and can present and defend it?
>>>> If you want it read in 2011 and you will not be at convention, you
>>>> will need to find someone else who will be there to read and defend
>>>> it.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 6/17/11, Joseph C. Lininger <jbahm at pcdesk.net> wrote:
>>>>> George,
>>>>> I hate to be a killjoy on you, but you're probably wasting your time
>>>>> with this. The organization isn't going to change this particular
>>>>> policy, no matter how many people would like to see it happen. For the
>>>>> record, I'm with you on this one, but I'm also no longer a
>>>>> federationest
>>>>> and haven't been for some years now. Too many differences of opinion.
>>>>> --
>>>>> "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box
>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm at pcdesk.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>>>> Email:
>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>> Website:
>>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
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