[nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment

Sun Jun 19 15:50:37 UTC 2011

Hi George,
That's a good question. When people come to the NABS business meeting
and  pay their dues, they are given a set of ballots. Only people who
stop by the registration table and give our treasurer their $5 get
ballots. I think this is a pretty good way of ensuring that only paid
members vote.
Sure, we can allow people to pay throughout the year and create a
tracking system. I think that is a good idea. However, once they've
paid, if they want to vote online, how do we prove they've paid
beforehand?
It might work if people pay their $5 online right before the election.
But even then, I worry about hackers and other fancy computer gimmicks
that might game the system.
Arielle

On 6/19/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Arielle:
> With all due respect,
> how would we be able to identify current members without any problem?
>
> That is to say,
> do we keep some kind of database of who is *currently* on NABS?
> The reason I'm asking is because I don't see how NABS keeps track of current
> membership to begin with,  let alone new members.
>
> Are you saying you're opposed to such an amendment because it would mean
> creating a tracking system for the entire membership?
>
> And if so, wouldn't this help NABS in the long run?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jorge
>
>
> On Jun 19, 2011, at 1:52 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>
>> Excellent point, Kurt. I have heard of cases at state conventions
>> where candidates brought all  their friends who were not NFB members
>> on the day of the election to pay their dues and vote in person. Sure,
>> this could happen at a national convention, but it seems less likely,
>> and much more likely if absentee voting were allowed. The problem
>> could be minimized by requiring payment of dues a month or so in
>> advance of the election. But even then, how could we verify payment
>> status virtually? The U.S. government allows mail-in voting, but in
>> that case candidates are clearly identified in advance. In short, even
>> if this amendment were permissible and philosophically desirable, our
>> election procedures, from nomination of candidates to membership
>> verification, would have to be radically modified. I'm not opposed to
>> change, but I question whether the dramatic investment of effort
>> required is worth the benefit of allowing a few more people to vote.
>> As Darian emphasized, there are many, many other ways we can be using
>> our energy and exercising our membership rights.
>> Respectfully,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 6/18/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Jorge,
>>>  You're putting this out in the open for public scrutiny so I'm going
>>> to be honest.  I really, really don't like the idea-it opens up all
>>> sorts of cans of worms that don't seem right to me.  Consider the
>>> following.
>>>  We probably won't know all the candidates in the election *until*
>>> the actual business meeting.  There could be someone who, for whatever
>>> reason, hasn't announced their candidacy for office on the list.  I
>>> think it's only fair that anyone who's even considering voting in the
>>> election knows who all candidates are and has the opportunity to
>>> listen to each introduction speech (even if it's only 30 seconds
>>> long), before they cast their ballot.  That's only fair to all the
>>> candidates involved.  I would consider supporting an idea that allows
>>> those due-paying members in virtual attendance (through an official
>>> NABS skype call or the like) the opportunity to vote.  Beyond that, I
>>> don't think you have much of a case.
>>>  Also, think about this.  Let's say you, hypothetically, were running
>>> for NABS president.  You get a bunch of your blind friends who aren't
>>> going to convention, who may or may not want anything to do with the
>>> Federation, and have them pay $5 so they're voting members.  I'm not
>>> saying you'd do such a thing, I'm just saying you're leaving that kind
>>> of possibility open.  No matter how secure the voting method is, that
>>> makes this something that could happen.  Do other organizations open
>>> that door?  Sure.  Should we?  I say no.
>>>  But the spirit behind the idea isn't bad.  I think, personally, if
>>> we could ensure some sort of secure method for virtual attendance at
>>> the meeting for those due-paying members who can't make convention,
>>> I'd be all for allowing them to vote.  Maybe set up a shoutcast server
>>> streaming the meeting, and only give the password to those due-paying
>>> members who request it?  Make a conference call and only give the
>>> calling info/access code for those due-paying members who ask for it?
>>> If we instituted a system like that, I don't see why we couldn't allow
>>> that sort of absentee voting, but only for those who are in virtual
>>> attendance at the NABS business meeting and not for anyone else.  Am I
>>> making any sense?  Is that a possibility?
>>>  All the best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 6/18/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Arielle:
>>>> Not exactly,
>>>> I'm going to continue to edit the amendment myself and should be able to
>>>> submit it before July second.
>>>> I posted this version so that people could see my amendment in light of
>>>> the
>>>> entire section.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>> Is this the final version you would like read at the NABS meeting this
>>>>> year? Or, would you like to wait until 2012 when you will be at
>>>>> convention yourself and can present and defend it?
>>>>> If you want it read in 2011 and you will not be at convention, you
>>>>> will need to find someone else who will be there to read and defend
>>>>> it.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/17/11, Joseph C. Lininger <jbahm at pcdesk.net> wrote:
>>>>>> George,
>>>>>> I hate to be a killjoy on you, but you're probably wasting your time
>>>>>> with this. The organization isn't going to change this particular
>>>>>> policy, no matter how many people would like to see it happen. For the
>>>>>> record, I'm with you on this one, but I'm also no longer a
>>>>>> federationest
>>>>>> and haven't been for some years now. Too many differences of opinion.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box
>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm at pcdesk.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>>>>> Email:
>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>>> Website:
>>>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Arielle Silverman
>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>> Email:
>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>> Website:
>> www.nabslink.org
>>
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>
>
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-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org